• scapegarced@sopuli.xyz
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      20 minutes ago

      Do not absolve the past administrations, do not absolve the future administrations, canada, europe, russia or china. Fuck the global north.

      • guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        29 minutes ago

        Yes. The 77.3 million who chose Trump, as well as those who were too lazy to bother voting.

        Collectively they can get fucking rekt.

        • Sunflier@lemmy.world
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          14 minutes ago

          So, what about the 75 million other Americans who voted for Harris?

          • SippyCup@lemmy.ml
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            Now is maybe not the time to throw “not all men” around.

            Now is the time to actively resist and prove to the rest of the world yourself an ally in a global fight against fascism taking command of the largest military on the planet.

      • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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        11 minutes ago

        How many times I heard that it’s ok to murder Palestinians because I’m 2006 they voted for the party that got rid of Israeli settlements.

        meanwhile the American people are not responsible for the guy they voted a second time last year?

        every conservative voter is directly complicit with those murders, and ideally they should face justice, and every liberal is also complicit because the Dems are useless and also do this bullshit.

        Only reply I’ll accept is that the US is not a democracy, barely even a pretend one. it’s a theater for the rich to do as they please. but I’ll still blame the Americans for not providing enough pushback.

        almost every other nation would have revolted. Americans are exceptionally meek bootlickers.

      • JLock17@lemmy.world
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        35 minutes ago

        Are you asking that in good faith? The Maga trash for certain, though. And people who don’t take direct action, or any action.

  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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    7 hours ago

    the same NYT that dint bother reporting the attack, because they recieved the info days before it from the trump administration. NYT AND POST are cupable as well.

    • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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      47 minutes ago

      And what would you do in our position? Stop acting like the average American citizen has any control over this.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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        27 minutes ago

        General strike.

        I mean, you Americans love to compare yourselves with Rome, learn something from the Secessio Plebis.

        Or better, take a hint from your own previous social movements.

    • tym@lemmy.world
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      Your cowardly leaders can sell their US Debt today when the markets open if they care to do anything meaningful - you’re foolish if you think a protest or strike will result in anything but incarceration at this stage.

      Guess what? Your leaders won’t sell their US Debt. Chew on that as this storm rolls your way.

      • falseWhite@lemmy.world
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        And what will happen when the corrupt America decides not to pay because they know it will cripple them?

        The bonds will become worthless pieces of paper and the USA will continue as it were.

        Guess what? No one wins anything and the EU loses a ton of money for absolutely nothing.

        Get your shit together you cowards.

    • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      This is just such an incredibly stupid insulting thing to say.

      Millions of Americans oppose this admin and are actively protesting and volunteering against it.

      We can’t just walk to fucking DC and remove a democratically elected prez you idiots

      • bstix@feddit.dk
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        3 hours ago

        We can’t just walk to fucking DC and remove a democratically elected prez you idiots

        It’s Jan 6th. tomorrow, just saying.

      • Tja@programming.dev
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        4 hours ago

        Changing your Facebook profile picture doesn’t count. If you feel insulted, look around and think.

        • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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          44 minutes ago

          An army with (at best) small arms. Against the US military, we may as well have sticks and stones.

      • falseWhite@lemmy.world
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        If they can do it in other countries, why can’t you? Cowards

        BTW democracy and law is dead in the USA, you are living in a delusion if you think otherwise.

        So yes, you absolutely CAN and SHOULD remove a war criminal and a pedophile who is breaking all the national and international laws. WTF?

        • tym@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          Who are you talking to? The democratic party that’s in on the classist reset? Or a guy with a slingshot? Call your leaders, ask them to sell their treasury bonds to stand in solidarity with venezuela… I’m sure they totally will because only murican billionaires are evil… yours are totally cool.

        • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
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          Yes. And the good Americans are constantly working towards that, anywhere from really complicated micro step means like funding grassroots progressives to things like Massie and Khanna collaborating on legislation to nation wide protests.

          This is an extremely complex and disturbing situation that requires mass demonstrations and complex beuarocratic machinations and acting like Greg from Atlanta not rolling up to Washington on a tractor with a shotgun is what’s letting it happen is fucking reductive, emotional, immature, unconstructive, childish, in-fighting causing, and just fucking stupid. As stupid as they nking democracy is dead in the USA.

    • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
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      11 hours ago

      go and fuck your hat. I’m a coward because I don’t want to stand up to the most powerful military in the world being damn near a senior citizen?

      • Daftydux@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        11 hours ago

        Bro, they on your side.

        No one expects you to go Rambo. They just want the majority of people to find their morals and do something.

        As unlikely as that is dont get so worked up because some anon was provoking you to do exactly what you just did. Maybe tomorrow you wont take down your local police department but instead look at a homeless person and think, “this isnt right.”

        • tym@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          call your leaders, pressure them to sell their treasury bonds because “this isn’t right.” The rats will jump ship once the money is affected.

          Guess what you and your leaders won’t do? Guess what that means about your complicity in all this? Are we ready for that conversation?

          • Daftydux@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 hours ago

            I am, the others arent. Wait till the midterms are stolen. We will reach peak irony levels there and some more might be willing till talk.

          • falseWhite@lemmy.world
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            And what will happen when the corrupt America decides not to pay because they know it will cripple them?

            The bonds will become worthless pieces of paper and the USA will continue as it were.

            Guess what? No one wins anything and the EU loses a ton of money for absolutely nothing.

            The EU leaders didn’t elect a pedophile convict to run your country. Get your shit together you cowards.

          • Tja@programming.dev
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            2 hours ago

            Your neighbor’s nephew once wore blue jeans, so he’s basically a war criminal.

        • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          Really just outs the commenter as having no fucking clue what they are talking about.

          We are doing what we can. Constant record breaking protests. Progressives are winning by historic margins. These stupid fucking pretentious insulting comments do less than nothing.

          People really just cannot fucking comprehend the breadth and intensity of the psy op propaganda that the Republicans have enacted (really since Nixon) but intensely starting with Trump.

          Unprecedented targetting, unprecedented amounts of propaganda, and a collaboration with multiple foreign adversaries to assist. Trumps campaign was literally sending voter data to Russia so they can specifically target Americans with propaganda.

          On top of OAN, Fox News, podcasts, and talk radio, we literally had Russia and china making thousands of full on fake websites posing as legit news spreading insane anti left bullshit. Social media was completely flooded with bots spreading misinformation leading up to all of Trump’s elections

          America is the victim of the biggest and most advanced brainwashing campaign in the history of mankind and we all seem to be ignoring that fact when it is the single most important aspect of modern American and global politics.

          • tym@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            keep reminding international armchair politicians about the facts that their leaders hold enough US Debt in the form of 10 year treasury bonds that they could take one on the chin and fire sale their bonds to topple the narcissistic house of cards

        • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
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          11 hours ago

          I do contribute. Drive for a local charity a few hours a month. They need a truck, I got a truck.

          I’m frustrated as fuck with the govt. right now. but, they voted it in and now we have to try to get through it. I hope it doesn’t end with bloodshed.

          • Daftydux@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            11 hours ago

            Thats it man, youre leagues above. Dont let the politics trigger you. Youre losing yourself to something you cant control.

            Same goes for me.

      • Zahtu@feddit.org
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        8 hours ago

        how about try to ask yourself: would you have shot hitler, had you been there, in nazi-germany? when all oposing parties and minorities were consecutively arrested and jailed?

      • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        Yeah why aren’t me and you single handedly overthrowing this democratically elected government! We must be stupid or something

        I love seeing foreigners asking Americans online why they don’t just stop this.

        Like, motherfucker millions of us voted against this.

        This is the result of multiple nations and multiple massive data analytics corps collaborating to create the biggest propaganda machine ever seen on earth which brainwashed millions of Americans.

        But yeah. Why the fuck isnt Dave, the liberal from Vermont just walking to Washington and stopping this!!! /s

          • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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            29 minutes ago

            It’s not, though. Europeans in the fediverse have consistently made this argument since the election.

          • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            Excellent retort. Now go feel high and mighty.

            You’ve really made a difference by insulting people who agree with you and are already using their means to fight against this admin

            You are a true revolutionary.

            Wish you could go back in time and tell all the Jews in Germany who didn’t vote for Hitler that they are stupid for not stopping him. That would be really constructive. You could really save us some trouble there.

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      wow.

      that’s really fucked up, you know?

      you’re literally victim blaming.

      edit: keep it up folks, my block list is starving

      edit 2: posting here for others that want to block these assholes

      @[email protected]

      @[email protected]

      @[email protected]

      @[email protected]

      @[email protected]

      @[email protected]

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      @[email protected]

      • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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        12 hours ago

        The victim is the world and the murder-rapist is the us. We do think its fucked up you all live in the same house but there comes a point when maybe “don’t blame me I voted for Kodos” does not work when you are all buying the clown makeup for John Wayne Gacy.

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      It is 100% an act of war, it’s even a very obvious indisputable act of war. Yet we see European leaders refusing to call it so. 😡

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        I doubt it’s just the Israelis who have compromision photos of top European politicians fucking little kids that they got using operations like Epstein’s.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          58 minutes ago

          Of course not Russia does too, what I was saying was that CIVILIZED countries don’t behave like that.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            22 minutes ago

            Yeah, well, look at Britain which had a massive demonstration of half a million people against the Genocide in Gaza and yet their supposedly “leftwing” “moderate” government is arresting people for “terrorism support” when they demonstrate against it.

            The people ARE civilized, it’s their elites (political or otherwise) which are unreformed barbarians by comparison, especially in those countries were the structures of power mean such people have been an entrenched and unchallenged elite for generations.

            So I would say that the countries are CIVILIZED, however they’re controlled by elites whose minset is still the same as the ancient monsters from the past (hence why, for example, British governments and Press have a mindset of colonialism towards the outside and “born to rule” towards their own citizens whilst German governments and Press support the Genocide of a “lesser people by a greater people” and both deploy authoritarian means to suppress dissent even tough they’re supposedly Democracies).

            This is also why I expect plenty of members of those elites will have broken the ultimate tabu of our era - they have the same principles of the ruling elites of centuries past, feel themselves above the law and firmly believe everybody else are nothing more than tools for their own personal upsides - including pleasure - and for many that would include children.

            PS: As I see it, the solution for the problems in Democracies is MORE Democracy (more transparency, more accountability, more independent oversight, more variety and change) but we’re going in the opposite direction and the actions of the ruling elites in the US and the support from the political elites in certain countries for that all matches with the moving away from Democracy towards Might Is Right and Authoritarianism

        • Denvil@lemmy.ml
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          9 hours ago

          Can’t really call it a war if the other side is barely fighting back. It’s just bullying and terrorism.

          • frongt@lemmy.zip
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            8 hours ago

            War crimes apply regardless whether a conflict is international or even whether it’s a declared war. The US never declared war in Vietnam, but nobody can deny the My Lai massacre was a war crime.

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        16 hours ago

        They’re dogs and vassals of the empire. Of course they aren’t biting the hand that feeds.

  • MisterOwl@lemmy.world
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    18 hours ago

    If we manage to escape the trump dictatorship, every soldier involved needs to be court-martialed and sentenced for following illegal orders.

    • pulsewidth@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      FYI US soldiers involved in illegal orders in the USA are almost never court-martialed or even put on trial. The only one I can think of actually being convicted is the Mai Lai massacre way back in 1968. The US has become consistently more brazen in its flaunting of international law regarding war crimes and any policing of its armed forces through subsequent administrations since.

      In fact its very rare for US troops or even military contractors brazenly ignoring orders and committing war crimes to even be put on trial, let alone be convicted. The most recent incident I can think of is the four Blackwater contractors during ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ that massacred 17 unarmed Iraqi civilians and injured 20 in Baghdad city. There was such overwhelming evidence in the case that they were convicted by a US court of murder (one member) and manslaughter (the other three) in 2014.

      Even that was an unacceptable level of accountability for the Republicans, so Trump gave them all presidential pardons in his first term in 2020.

      • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
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        3 hours ago

        They don’t even prosecute foreign war criminals, much less their own. US Nuremberg trails had a <0.2% conviction rate for identified war criminals lol. Less than 1% of “major war criminals”.

        Criminal cops are paid instead of convicted.

        There is 0 hope for any justice at all for these people unless the entire US government gets overthrown or something just as drastic.

    • possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      7 hours ago

      You could march them in fucking shackles to the Hague and they would just handwave them away. Nobody is coming to fucking save us, and the sooner people wake the fuck up and realize that, the sooner we can start organizing valuable and competent community defense networks.

    • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      This never happened in US history and I don’t think americans have the spine to do anything even remotely close to this.

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      16 hours ago

      This made me laugh. This is the same shit we’ve been doing for 100 years. “Illegal orders” aren’t a thing when you use your imperial military to do imperialism. The last time we had a President that wasn’t a war criminal was never.

      • ElegantBiscuit@lemmy.zip
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        8 hours ago

        Yeah this is more like a return to the norm, just more blatant and overt. And even earlier than 100 years, before America was strong enough to reach out into the world and do this to other countries, it was manifest destiny against the indigenous. You won’t find a corner of this planet unmolested by American imperialism, and the hardest hit are still problems that persist to this day.

        Whether it’s the Panama Canal, the Monroe doctrine, the Banana republics, or atrocities in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos. Intervening in civil wars and conflicts that would eventually create Taiwan and South Korea and Israel as American vassal states built with the purpose of serving American interests. Fomenting a coup in Iran over oil which would usher in the Iranian revolution, or smashing Iraq which created a power vacuum for isis to form. Wherever and whenever America reaches out into the world, death and destruction will typically follow. And if it isn’t leaving a shattered and broken state for whoever is left to pick up the pieces, then it’s funding and arming one side of a war to create a satellite state to enrich itself which leaves a conflict ready to reignite at any moment.

    • Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
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      The USA has done this many times (captured or even murdered heads of state, and anyone else they wish to), there has never been a court martial and nobody has ever been punished.

      If you know of any exceptions, please share.

    • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      And then we should get all the world leaders in a big room and tell them they’re being bad. Then they’ll all sing and hold hands and stop all wars. And then later my mommy can make us all dino nuggies and we can watch Trollhunters on Netflix.

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        9 hours ago

        Y’know… Of all the ridiculously stupid improbable absurdity that’s happened…

        … I’m kinda down for that one over whatever the frick we’re living through at the moment lol.

        And then later my mommy can make us all dino nuggies and we can watch Trollhunters on Netflix.

        Your mom sounds cool. Call her and tell her she’s cool. ❤️

    • falseWhite@lemmy.world
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      3 hours ago

      I don’t think he realises that Greenland is part of Denmark and therefore part of NATO. I don’t think they realise that any attack on Greenland would invoke article 5.

      The only people that mentioned taking Greenland with military force are those complete idiots who know absolutely nothing about them being part of NATO.

      Their only hope can be for the people of Greenland to have a referendum to leave Denmark and join the USA. But they have already expressed multiple times that they are not interested in joining the USA.

      All this is right now is just empty talk seeking popularity points.

      So unless America wants to leave NATO and start a war with it, it’s not gonna happen.

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      Trump is everything bad about a psychopath, sociopath and narcissist.
      Rolled up in what we call malignant narcissist. He has complete disregard for other people, and he has absolutely no conscience, and he expects to be worshiped.

      Fuck Americans for making him president twice.

      • Imhereforfun@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        Just the way he spoke about watching it happening live and comparing it to a good TV show says a lot about his mental state.

        • azimir@lemmy.ml
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          17 hours ago

          A key element of narcissism is that nothing really matters except the one person. The world is basically just something that happens and should always center around them. He’s one of the biggest narcissists to ever exist so suffering and pain in others means nothing to him. It never has and never will.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          Sorry to hear you lost your family to a cult.
          In Denmark we have 12 parties in parliament, and none of them are as bad as the Republicans. Because none of them would remove healthcare for all.
          I don’t think most Americans really understand how extreme the Republicans are, even without Trump!
          USA has gone mad as a society, and see the selfishness of rich Republicans as an expression of freedom.
          It is not all Americans that are mad, but like when a person has terminal cancer, it is not all cells in the body that are cancerous, but it’s enough to make the cancer terminal.
          USA still has good people and even remarkable people, but unfortunately they are a minority.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      16 hours ago

      As a Dane whose brother works in Nuuk 2-4 months a year, I’m not a fan of those plans, actually. I’d rather he not, tbh.

    • mang0@lemmy.zip
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      17 hours ago

      The amount of people who voted republican completely obliterates the tiny fraction of people who abstained from voting democrat. How about directing focus where it’s relevant?

      • Zorque@lemmy.world
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        15 hours ago

        The amount of people who sat home on voting day outweighs both republican and democrat voters. Apathy won the last presidential election, just like every election in recent memory.

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            13 hours ago

            Encouraging more democratic leaning voters would’ve made a difference however, you don’t have to assume linear proportional effect

            • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              Encouraging more democratic leaning voters would’ve made a difference however, you don’t have to assume linear proportional effect

              Which is exactly the job of the Democrat Party leaders, which is done via amongst other things offering potential voters the things they desire and assuaging their concerns, things which are clearly not “Unwavering support of Israel and its Genocide”, “Do whatever is good for Finance and Tech-bros” or “Supporting the Cheney family, legacy and political ideology”.

              The people with by far the most power to convince leftwing leaning non-voters to vote for the Democrat Party were the Democrat Party leaders and they, with all that power they had, actually did the very opposite of trying to cater to the desires and concerns of such non-voters.

              Yet around here whenever american politics pops up as a subject we get a rabid pack of mindless useful idiots blaming non-voters literally for not convincing themselves to vote for a party whose leaders activelly tried to reject them, never blaming those fucking leaders for activelly rejecting said potential voters.

              Fuck the subservient, bootlicking Democrat Party tribalists who keep on excusing the profound incompetence and greed of their tribe’s “chiefs” and parroting the DNC propaganda line that pushes the blame to non-voters rather than accept that the blame for a fucking monster like Trump having been elected a second time is overwhelmingly of the DNC and the rest of the Democrat Party leadership who once again chose to “stay pretty close but just below” in the Evil scales from the Republicans

              Maybe it’s not so obvious for those living inside America and its Politics, but from the outside it’s obvious that both of Trump’s presidential election victories are the end product of decades of the Democrat Party leadership getting away with representing ever fewer people whilst relying on a “vote lesser evil” strategy, all of which supported by the very same useful idiots who now, once again, come out relentlessly parroting the “everybody but ourselves is to blame” mindless bullshit that only an acephalic tribalist muppet would believe.

              It is fucking obvious for anybody who knows just a bit of World History that Trump or somebody like him was bound to be elected sooner or later in the US when the strategy of the competing political force there was nothing more than invariably sidding with the handful of moneyed elites just limited by the need to stay just one step below in the Ladder of Evil from the other political force.

              So enjoy the Fall Of The Empire you created for yourselves (by supporting a “Greater Evil” vs “Lesser evil” political power structure) and for the other 340 million people over there, whilst the rest of us batters the hatches and endures the side effects of the “Empire overextending itself militarily whilst the homeland becomes ever empoverished and authoritarian” phase of such Fall until America fizzles in power (if you’re lucky) or breaks up.

      • Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        “tiny fraction of people” millions of registered D voters sat it out

        The DNC knew that Harris campaign pursuing Republican votes would cost her the election. She knew it, too, she’s not dumb.

        Independents outnumber Ds and Rs; if you ignore your own Democrats and ignore Independents and pursue Republican votes, you will lose every time.

        The math requires you to keep your own voters AND acquire Independent votes. There’s no way around it, not enough Ds exist, even if all had voted you still need I votes.

        This is why Democratic campaigns are otherwise always focused on D and I votes.

        Why did they ignore the fundamentals? You decide… but recall that she raised over a billion dollars in a few months, whilst Trump raised only 900 million in four years.

      • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        16 hours ago

        yeah but then how could libs feel smugly superior?

        they’d rather blame the tiny fraction of people with principles rather than the third of the country that is actively fascist, because politically, they’re closer to the fascists

        • Zorque@lemmy.world
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          15 hours ago

          I’d hardly take criticism from so called leftists regarding smugness.

          Blaming “liberals” for not voting on “principle” (re: ego) while they sit on their asses telling everyone else to form an armed rebellion instead certainly aren’t smug bastards themselves.

        • arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
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          12 hours ago

          Because they are the ones that knew but chose to play some bullshit game instead of putting their shit aside for the reality they knew was there but just made them feel uncomfortable.

          Its actually way worse in that way then the republicans who are nearly impossible to blame as they were and some still are totally convinced a fantasy reality was actually there at that time and can’t be held as accountable by blaming as much as they see it as a personal attack and it vindicates them if not put in language they understand.

          Tell the republicans to fuck themselves and it helps to remind them they’re supporting a pedo and a warmongerer. Hold them accountable with specifics actions he’s done against them and why its bad. Not a general you shouldn’t have voted for him because fantasyland reasoning

          You have to do their thinking for them entirely I’m learning, its like drugs, theyre addicted to people thinking for them, have to get them a healthy alternative to get them weaned so they can fend for themselves afterwards but not before that happens

          • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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            12 hours ago

            play some bullshit game

            Oh I know this one, its the two party system pretending to be a democracy right?

            But I am things are bad because the wrong team is in power, and if they turn out to be great it is all due to the brave right team. But hey good thing you are there to “do their thinking for them entirely”!

            • arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
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              11 hours ago

              Jesus your contextual reading needs work

              Fox news ONN types need they’re thinking done for them.

              You need therapy and a fucking wake up call. This is reality not some ideological victimhood posturing contest. The two party system controlled by the media and the monetary powers that be run this shitshow (along with Russian gov misinformation campaigning and other fucking useful idiots)

              So spelled out. It was not a good time to take that fight and were all getting fucked up now because you fucked up your turn.

              Figure if they come for you, your family or a loved one and send them to some hellhole that might that might help you understand that. But have fun winning your “The world has to work how I want it before I participate” award. Wasn’t worth it IMO.

              Learn to play the actual game or get fucked by those that already do. Good fucking luck next turn. Do not fuck up this one

              • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                11 hours ago

                Fox news ONN types need they’re thinking done for them.

                And you see no issues with this statement? You need the wake up call, you live in a hellscape that is actively making the world worse and just assume I do too. You and your american exceptionalism can go to hell. The best time to fight was before and the next best time is now.

                Please do the world a favor and ether fix your shit nation or collapse already.

      • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.ca
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        16 hours ago

        Bologna. There are not enough conservative voters in virtually any nation to win in an election that progressive voters actually turn out to. Conservatives only win when progressives don’t vote; conservatives NEVER don’t vote.

        • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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          15 hours ago

          But the moral prohibition on siding with any administration that endorses genocide will force a different flavor of the exact same logic that centrist liberalism has depended on for so long: hold your nose and align with the least worst thing. Only the least worst thing will no longer be the mild, ethics-agnostic emptiness of modern Western liberalism, nor will it be the multitude of barbaric authoritarians and their secret prisons. It will be communal solidarity, or else nothing, a walking away from all of this. Countless otherwise pragmatic people who would in any other circumstance choose liberalism by default will instead decide none of this is worth the damage to one’s soul. They will instead support no one, vote for no one, wash their hands of any ordering of the world that results in choices no better than this. And the obvious centrist refrain—But do you want the deranged right wing to win?—should, after even a moment of self-reflection, yield to a far more important question: How empty does your message have to be for a deranged right wing to even have a chance of winning? Of all the epitaphs that may one day be written on the gravestone of Western liberalism, the most damning is this: Faced off against a nihilistic, endlessly cruel manifestation of conservatism, and somehow managed to make it close.

          — Omar El-Akkad, One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, correction mine

          • Natanael@infosec.pub
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            13 hours ago

            That argument works when the difference is small.

            That argument doesn’t work when one option is a cataclysmic disaster

            But most importantly - when you look at what policies that Trump voters said they voted for, you could divide that into a fraction of voters voting for evil (plain stupid racists), and a large fraction voting for something positive which they had been told Trump would deliver - yet which he was objectively worse at. Most people voted Trump for the economy while told he was a great businessman, or for healthcare while told he’d make health insurance more affordable (but now he made it less), etc…

            Almost every positive impact in the last decades that his voters attributed to him was delivered by his opposition.

            This wasn’t an election lost to attrition. Your quote explains nothing about what happened.

            There was more votes than ever. It was lost to propaganda and people being idiots, not seeing through the fraud. Trump’s policies lost every poll when names were taken off. Everything he wanted to do kept being rejected. But the propaganda machine made people distrust the people who delivered all the things they said they were grateful for, and to trust the liar instead.

            • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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              13 hours ago

              Implying that a Harris/second Biden administration wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster

              Implying that any outcome where AmeriKKKa continues to exist and destroy our world wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster

              • Natanael@infosec.pub
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                13 hours ago

                If you can not understand a difference in scale then your school years was a cataclysmic disaster

                • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                  12 hours ago

                  Maybe they went to an Arkansas school, or any other american one that teaches people to only support the terrible system.

                  But hey! You voted right so you can be smug and its only fair you get to point your impotent rage at those who did not vote the way you did. And next time when the two parties are both somehow worse you can once again vote for the lesser evil!

        • mang0@lemmy.zip
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          16 hours ago

          Republican voters voted for this. Non-voters didn’t vote, hence the name. I can’t believe I have to tell you this. Even if there wasn’t a single non-voter, nothing would’ve changed. Try directing your douchebag attitude towards those who are actually responsible.

          • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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            14 hours ago

            Non voters voted for this by virtue of being too stupid to know how our system works. They deserve responsibility.

          • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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            15 hours ago

            I agree that saying “non-voters voted for” anything is basically absurd, but people sitting on the couch rather than voting did affect the outcome of the 2024 election. A bit over three million fewer people voted in 2024 than 2020.

            • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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              12 hours ago

              Yes, the second and first most voted elections in your nations history. Clearly it is the small number of voters that are not supportive of the only two options at fault.

              Managed democracy is meant to be a joke, but the real joke is the attitude on display from americans that somehow still think they live in a democracy.

          • Typhoon@lemmy.ca
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            14 hours ago

            Every non-voter was fine with this outcome because they couldn’t sack up and make the less bad choice. If you see a car coming towards a child in the road and do nothing you are still partly responsible if they get hit. They allowed it to happen through their inaction.

            • Zorque@lemmy.world
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              15 hours ago

              Responsibility for someone else’s vote?

              All the people making excuses for why their vote clearly didn’t matter so they were better off not voting obviously aren’t making excuses themselves. That would be silly!

          • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            Republicans by and large know what they voted for. Protest-non-voters need to be informed what they in fact voted for, as you demonstrate.

            Ah yes see you’re looking to assign responsiblity. Again, I am informing protest-non-voters what they voted for.

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          There’s been polling analysis that showed if you forced everyone to vote then Harris would have lost to Trump by an even bigger margin due to the unpopularity of the administration at the time. Nonvoters didn’t make a difference. Michigan was won by Trump by a bigger margin than all college students or Arabs or Muslims or any other minority group in the state.

          • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            I think you’re trying to assign blame. Again, I am informing non-protest-voters what they voted for.

    • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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      16 hours ago

      AmeriKKKa is uniparty on foreign policy. This exact outcome would have happened under a Harris administration, except they would have kept up the kayfabe, so I would have had to spend hours debating with shitlibs like you that this war is in fact just about oil.

      If you wanna play “shame Olympics”, liberals should be fucking ashamed for losing to the fucking fascists twice, giving the keys of the kingdom to the fascist twice, doing fucking nothing with their political power every time they had it, and barely even pretending to offer a political program worth fighting for.

          • Zorque@lemmy.world
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            15 hours ago

            Trump, of course, being so much better.

            Pragmatism beats principles every day of the week. The problem is it makes weak-willed people scared.

            • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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              14 hours ago

              Yes, pragmatically speaking, voting for Biden does absolutely fucking nothing to alleviate any of the problems faced by the working class. It doesn’t affect the onward progression of capitalism, it doesn’t stop the racists from controlling the government, doesn’t stop the cops from murdering black people, doesn’t stop the erasure of LGBTQIA lives, doesn’t do anything.

              The pragmatic options are to first stabilize your own situation, and then organize popular resistance and do direct actions if you have the bandwidth.