If you’re referring to the “Death to the IDF” chant, let’s be extremely fucking precise here: the IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance. Legitimate target of violent armed resistance. Period.

And Bob Vylan are not calling for the destruction of an ethnicity, a religion, a nation. They are calling for the destruction of a genocidal army. Just like the South African Defence Forces of the South African Apartheid era absolutely deserved to be destroyed as a criminal organization, so do the Israeli Defence Forces of the Israeli Apartheid era.

What’s really fucked up is that, at this point, this kind of story hits much harder to me as a westerner, than the stories about shootings in food lines. Because food lines and random wanton shootings are not something I can easily relate to and I’ve heard it so many goddamn fucking times that I’ve been numbed. But the bombing of a seaside café, I feel that. That’s a part of me that hasn’t been numbed yet.

Motherfuckers.

Stop the genocide, death to apartheid.

So their US visas got revoked. Meh. Who needs to go to the US anyway, who needs to be interrogated by some fascist chode at the border.

I wonder why he’s not just joining the Libertarians.

With the whole Glastonbury kerfuffle I’ve come to know more about this band called Bob Vylan. They have this lovely song, and it goes ike this:

I heard you want your country back
Shut the fuck up
I heard you want your country back
Uh-uh, you can't have that
The only place I know
Stolen right under my nose
By ignorant scum
Tryna lay claim to a land that ain't theirs anyway
Wait - what did you say?
I heard you want your country back
Ha! Shut the fuck up
I heard you want your country back
Uh-uh, you can't have that
I heard you want your country back
Ha! Shut the fuck up
I heard you want your country back
Well shit, me too

Would it kill you to not jokingly deny the humanity of every person outside the United States, Liberia, and the Cayman Islands? Just say Fahrenheit. Jeez, yank.

Reminder that it is Israeli right wingers themselves that have opened that door by saying that Hamas are worse than Nazis and comparing the October 7th attacks to the Holocaust.

Whoever told you Israel is a democracy lied to you. Israel is a democracy the way Apartheid South Africa was a democracy.

Good point, the IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance

If your god exists, I’m sure he’ll love hearing all about this when you face him. Fucking pieces of shit.

By the way, do apply the same logic to the Hamas fighters.

I edited my comment since I made it. Here is the newer version. Bold the bit that I think adresses your concern.

Edit: why is “death to the IDF” mild compared to “death to Arabs”? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.

Exactly. That’s what many people don’t realize. Hamas atrocities are themselves a product of Israeli Jewish-supremacist occupation apartheid. There are multiple instances in history where occupation and subjugation has brutalized a population to the point of themselves becoming butchers when given the chance. From Boudicca, to King Phillip’s War, to the late excesses of the Haitian Revolution, to Nat Turner’s rebellion, to the early days of the Greek Revolution, and even Terror periods of the French and Russian Revolutions. These excesses and atrocities are not to be glorified, but they must be understood as really sad outcomes of the pre-existing brutal regime. It’s always chickens coming home to roost, and in fact it’s usually a wonder that the atrocities are not worse.

Hamas committed horrible atrocities on October 7th. Was anyone really surprised they did so however? These were an outcome of decades of brutal occupation.

Hell, I’ll even say something very controversial: Israeli atrocities themselves are the outcome of the extraordinary brutalization of Jews in the decades preceding the founding of Israel. Hitler is laughing in hell. This is his intergenerational evil at work, 80 years after he bit his luger.

“Death to the IDF” is not what I would chant, but it’s honestly mild compared to the kinds of slogans (eg. “Death to Arabs” and “Let your village burn”) West-funded, West-supported, West-armed, and West-protected-from-accountability Israeli fanatics chant before committing actual fucking atrocities. Hell, it’s mild compared to the Amalek rhetoric of Israeli state leadership.

Edit: why is “death to the IDF” mild compared to “death to Arabs”? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.

What’s that flag?

Well clearly you have me all figured out, motives and all.

My original argument is specific: the way the European powers have aligned themselves with Israeli craziness does not inspire confidence that the Democrats would have been less hawkish. Underlying assumption: the Democrats tend to be as dovish as the Europeans.

The previous commenter made a counterfactual claim that Harris would not have pulled out of JCPOA and I pointed out that a Harris admin wouldn’t have a JCPOA to pull out of.

You’re now spinning a narrative around these very simple things I’ve said. Did the tankies hurt you and now you see them everywhere?

Trump killed off the JCPOA in 2018. Biden had four years after 2020 to do something about that and didn’t. So I don’t know what you’re basing your assertion on, it sounds more like wishful thinking to me.

But Germany’s Staatsräson says you have to do whatever Israel wants.

Given how Germany, France, the UK etc have all lined up behind Israel, towing the line that Israel has a right to defend itself, and even going as far as saying that Israel is doing our dirty work for us, I have very serious doubts that Harris would not have followed Israel down the warpath.

Just like with Putin’s stooges, the grovelling and the self humiliation is the point.