Summary
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned Europe that it cannot withstand Russia without Ukraine’s military, calling Ukraine’s victory vital to stopping Kremlin expansion.
Speaking to Polish media, Zelenskyy stressed that Russia’s larger, more brutal army would target other European nations if Ukraine falls.
He criticized Western allies for underestimating Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, urging them to strengthen Ukraine’s defenses.
He’s right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It’s going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
Not a problem for Europe.
https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/efscm-assessment-autumn-2023_en.pdf
On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn’t have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I’m not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)… but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It’s incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin’s gaze.
if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Insane. It pisses me off no end that we haven’t given them the tools to not just defend their freedom, but to win. Fuck your fear of escalation. There are North Korean soldiers fighting a war of aggression in Europe.
Like how much more are we going to take?
Based on prices increase for the last two years « because it’s from Ukraine »… either we are being fooled by big corps or Ukraine do produces 80% goods and food for Europe
Well, if you’re from the EU, that would make sense. In America, we grow a lot of grain here in Canada and the US.
Eu is mostly self sufficient on base foods:
https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/efscm-assessment-autumn-2023_en.pdf
If you look at fig. 4 on page 5, almost every meat source is above 100%, and fig 5 show most plant foods vary between 60-130%.
In the 70’s the ECC which EU was called back then, turned European agriculture around from huge deficits to huge surpluses. To ensure self sufficiency in case of international destabilization. This resulted in enormous stockpiles, leading to a more balanced policy, which we seem to have achieved.
In short EU is NOT dependent on food from Ukraine, but others are.
We do import soy and maize, but have a surplus on grains.The main shortfall in the EU is protein crops, not just soy but most of our lentils are from Canada, we’re more of a pea continent and not really growing that many of them. It’s unlikely that imports from the Americas will be cut off, though, and if they are then we still won’t be anywhere close to famine but meat and milk products will become a lot more expensive.
Ah ok then!
I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
Maybe or maybe not.
Look at Israel. Why do you think the US sending them more weapons for their genocide every month? Because they don’t have the material to fight a protracted war. That’s largely how it is in Europe too, and it’s a good thing, because they don’t have the ‘bomb first and then ask questions later’ mentality that Americans do.
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
I could use a break from all this winning tho
As long as the nuke is dropped on my head, I don’t care.
Putin has said as much, it is why he constantly reminds everyone of his nuclear arsenal and apparent willingness to end the world over small matters.
Small dick energy on Putins part.
Astroturfing orcs downvoting
Putin doesn’t own a big red button he can push to launch nukes. There are layers in command that would not comply. And they’ve done it before. Same goes for Trump.
I’m not sure how, for one second you believe that if Putin ordered a nuclear strike, that order wouldn’t be carried out.
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
I’m not sure, but since this is the Russian-Ukraine conflict we’re talking about, we don’t have to worry about one showing up. Russia is barely a near peer to Ukraine, they wouldn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell against more than one country at a time without their nukes, let alone NATO as a whole.
Nukes are literally the only thing that lets Russia pretend they’re still a superpower and not a failed state. But as we can see in Ukraine, they can’t even beat a former client state and has to resort to bringing our cold war era equipment, so double lol at “similar capabilities”
I believe you are forgetting about the vast and formidable legion of battle-hardened and experienced North Korean soldiers they have at their disposal. /s
“similar technological and production capabilities”
Okay bud. Russia has pretty effectively burned through their best equipment and skilled fighters and is basically running on pure authoritarian insistence right now.
Similar technologies is an extreme stretch as well, Russia is not anywhere near the technology level of other NATO nations. They need China to get anywhere near that level, and I’m not sure China would give them that level of support if a wider conflict broke out.
against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
We’re talking about Russia here.
TIL training doesn’t exist.
Training will only get your units to level 3. Then it only provides a trickle of army XP to maybe get a doctrine out, at a huge cost of equipment. If you want units at level 5 before the big one starts, you’ve got to send volunteers. But seriously, I’m pretty sure actual combat is much different than training.
A random story on that topic: A family member of mine, who was in the service, got where he was going with his people, told everybody what to do, and everything got underway. A little group of people went down the path they were supposed to go down. A little while later one of their guys comes TEARING back up the path, all in a panic, and yells at my family member “JESUS CHRIST SERGEANT THEY’RE KILLING PEOPLE DOWN THERE”.
Like, yeah, I get it. It’s pretty fucking upsetting. Training is one thing and seeing people turning into corpses and chunks flying off them is way, way different. I’m not trying to make light, because I do get what he was getting it, but my family thought it was pretty funny.
A good read: GILES, Keir, 2024. Who Will Defend Europe?. 24 October 2024. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9781911723486.
All the European cowards in the comments writing Ukraine off, now that Trump is coming to power. Without even pretending to put up a fight, without US omni presence. Shame on you. Put would kick your asses, and he know it, you’d fold just like you did to the reich. Nothing changes.
Can you absolutely shut the fuck up. Europe can and should fill the gap if trump pussies out.
Exactly how many F16s has the US given? Oh that’s right. Zero.
Europe has (in total) ponied up more in arms and cash than the US.
I would rather be taxed to death than see them overrun.
Jog on.
Can’t we just buy the grain off of Russia if they win? Asking for a friend
During WW2 there were people buying gold teeth from concentration camps wardens without asking any questions.
Ask your friend if his grandpa was one of them.
Well, you could. But imagine after all the conflict, would Russia offer a good deal? Who’d pay for the cost increase? And what else could they ask in return, more raw material for nuclear weapons, so that in 15 years they can go another round with an even better odds?
