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Where the lemonade is made. Sweeeeet lemonade. Ok, ok, my age is showing…
Multiple things can be true at once.
- The election process in the US is horribly constructed in the first place
- It’s executed even more poorly
- Nevertheless, voting does determine who sits in the seat
- It does matter who sits in the seat
- The person who sits in the seat will represent the wealthy and powerful, not you
- It does matter who represents the powerful, because they can be pushed (by the people, and by the powerful) in different ways
- Even if we get the right person in the seat, and do a very good job of pushing them, it won’t be enough
- We need to do it anyway, because that act of organizing isn’t only to influence politicians — it’s also to influence ourselves, and improve our ability to find a path to real victory
Don’t think that voting alone is sufficient. Don’t think that voting and organizing are sufficient. But also don’t think that voting and organizing are not necessary.
but they aren’t.
i hate how libs will come and try to pretend to be all nuanced lately, when your democrats have been interfering in our elections and throwing bombs on our heads for decades.
if voting would fix anything, you would have already.
How long should people participate in a broken system? 50 more years? 100?
That’s important point. While the revolution should come from the inside, planet simply don’t have so much time to suffer the omnicidal empire.
I actually lol’d and then kind of gagged mid lol? I thought you should know. 💚
The retch of approval, one of comedy’s highest honors
In reality, one of these sides is significantly closer to the edge of the pool, and much less slippery.
It’s so funny how even in analogies you’re reduced to splitting hair and grasping at straws desperately trying to find any meaningful difference between the Dems and Reps that isn’t easily debunk-able because as the Dems go increasingly mask-off you have less and less to work with to make your “vote blue no matter who” spiel.
Like, you do realize how utterly negligible a difference what you just said “adds” to the metaphor right?
Life is full of choosing the lesser of two evils.
Okay, so become a communist.
“LiFe iS fUll Of chOOsIng tHe lEsSer oF twO eVilS.”
Do you have any actual arguments or just instant noodle armchair truisms?
“Lesser evils” are only worth choosing if the difference between the 2 evils is big enough to have an impact. In this case it isn’t, both parties are genocidal gangs with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The only difference between the 2 is what they say when they know the public can hear them (and even then their rhetoric is getting more and more similar) and what the corporate owned media says about them, but in practice, when it comes to quality of life, repression, violence, wages, legislation, etc… aka metrics that actually matters, there is virtually no difference between the 2.
Ah well, if there’s no difference you can vote for the side building concentration camps in the US then I guess. I mean, the DHS is literally unfunded at the moment because democratic lawmakers are demanding ICE reform.
Or, if you start your own party let me know, I’ll vote for ya. 😉
democratic lawmakers are demanding ICE reform.
Aka they are okay with violent forced deportations as long as it’s done ✨ legaly ✨.
Why do you assume the Democrats wouldn’t build concentration camps as well btw? No, because last I checked, the Dems didn’t do shit about kids in cages, forced prison labor or the US’s torture prisons like Guantanamo and gave more budget than Trump to the Trump border wall not to mention their support and funding of literal concentration camps in Israel. Does that sound like the actions of a party that wouldn’t build concentration in the US to you? Because it sure as heck doesn’t to me.
In my opinion, if the Dems had been elected they would have done it and justified it with their classic pr technique of letting the Reps vote whatever they want in congress while they stand by and pretend like they couldn’t do anything about it despite their candidate being in office and go “well, the law is in the book now so we have to play along” like they did with Roe v Wade.
Democrats were literally building concentration camps and funding ICE when they were in power too.
Yes they were, but it wasn’t as bad, which is sort of the whole point.
Would you rather have hand-wringing neoliberals with some accountability, or hardcore right wing authoritarian nazi republicans with no accountability?
One leads to a new holocaust in the US, the other leads back to the status quo. Take your pick.
Yes they were
Oh, ok. So when you said they weren’t, you were lying?
Would you rather have hand-wringing neoliberals with some accountability, or hardcore right wing authoritarian nazi republicans with no accountability?
Given that, unlike most liberals, I consider foreigners to be human, both of them are genocidal fascists.
One leads to a new holocaust in the US, the other leads back to the status quo.
As ever, shitlibs only care about human life within the US border. And the status quo was both monstrous and what lead directly to the current situation, so wanting to Retvrn to it is some reactionary shit
You’re being chauvinist. You may not want to admit it, but it’s the only way this position makes sense.
Your “lesser evil” logic only works if you implicitly treat people in the imperial periphery as expendable, as if our suffering matters less than your domestic anxieties. Your entire framework centers US comfort while mass death abroad becomes background noise.
Who backed the genocide in Gaza? Who destroyed Libya and turned it into a failed state with open slave markets? Who armed proxies that helped give rise to ISIS in Syria? Who backed decades of rape and mass killing in Afghanistan?
It was bipartisan. Every time. Enthusiastically bipartisan.
Permanent war, sanctions, coups, and the immiseration of the Global South are the foundation of the system. Democrats and Republicans agree on this completely.
So when you say “one leads to fascism and the other leads back to the status quo,” you leave out the key point: the status quo already depends on mass death elsewhere. Your stability is subsidized by bombs, blockades, and starvation.
Yes, Republicans are more “meaner” at home. Democrats use nicer language. That’s PR. Democrats provide legitimacy for the same imperial machine while managing the decline more “politely”.
From Palestine to Haiti, there is no meaningful lesser evil just continuous catastrophe.
Your argument boils down to: as long as things don’t get too bad too fast here, everything else is negotiable.
That’s peak chauvinism.
Yes they were, but it wasn’t as bad
Self-parody achieved
The important thing is to never vote, amiright comrades?
For genocide? Correct. That knowledge lets me sleep like a baby
The important thing is to organize, and recognize the futility of relying on voting within bourgeois “democracy” to bring about positive change.
I agree with you and principal, But do you really believe that if people voted the other way in the last election we wouldn’t be seeing net less suffering right now?
Well you’d be SEEING less thanks to the likelihood of copmala having way better pr but in reality us of the periphery and USian minorities would still be subject to much the same just with a better spin for the Euro-Americans.
Remember Obama destroyed Libya. The Clinton’s bombed Yugoslavia and Iraq as well as the entire Somali debacle.
In reality if you see non white suffering as counting odds are the net would be within the error bars if you graphed it.
That’s certainly hard to directly claim either way, but the concept of “voting for the lesser of two evils” is partially responsible for what got us here.
While we’re busying “organizing”, would it be ok to take 20 minutes out of our day once a year to go vote for the lesser of two evils? Because on the off chance it might take us a while to get organized, one of the two major parties will probably still be in power.
It’s not 20 minutes every year. It takes all the air out of the room for the entire interval between elections. It wastes the time of the would be most politically active people for years on end.
We’re already talking about “if you don’t vote for Newsome you’re voting for Trump”
The lesser of two evils is voting for a working class party like PSL.
Yes, that can be tactically advantageous, depending on your circumstances. Just leave it at that. Don’t pour all your energy in electoralism, campaigning and following news around those.
If voting changed anything they’d make it illegal
Well, they are working on it, at least for certain demographics.
So I guess there was a chance, or why would they bother now.
Exactly. Both parties are the same, so don’t even bother.
“The United States is also a one-party state, but in typical American extravagance they have two of them.”
The only path forward for Americans is to destroy their corrupt and evil government. If you keep voting for the same evil and corrupt people you will accomplish nothing and stay living in the same world destroying hell you exist in now.
Why waste time canvassing and voting and taking part in the system that is from its inception designed to keep you down? Take that time and effort and put it into something meaningful like organising a militant party of those with theoretical grounding to build up a counter power structure and make real change.
Yes! We’ll have the coolest uniforms, and our leader will have long, flowing hair! 😍
Coming out unprompted against cool uniforms is yet another example of liberals shooting themselves in the foot by rejecting obviously popular ideas out of hand for being too communist and ethnic.
I was right you’re one of those. Best of luck to you in life I hope you don’t regret it when you get what you want.
you’re not funny and you don’t have any articulable points
What’s democratic centralism btw? Definitely not something where you vote amirite fellow libs?
Okay, but the other side isn’t fascism? They are hardly democracy, but they aren’t totalitarians?!
Your daily reminder that liberals don’t consider non-westeners to be human.
Take up your denialiam with tens of thousands of exterminated Palestinians
Ah yes, how they were all saved by dump though, eh? And how’s the gestapo going?
When their genocide support is pointed out, the liberal nazi defaults to bragging about how Palestinians are still dying, like an anime villain. Not realizing that are tacitly admitting what the communists have said all along: that there is no functional difference between the two sides of the billionaire pedophile uniparty.
Ah yes, unlike you, pointing out such injustice on the internet and patting yourself on the back. So brave. So when’s new government start? I assume you are first to march on Washington?
Oh sweet summer child… All Usian politicians are totalitarian fascists. The US is a fascist country, the USian culture is a fascist culture.
You heard it here folks, arming and funding a genocide isn’t fascist or totalitarian
Yeah, some guy on the internet certainly has final say on matters, eh? Your entire government has always been fascist by your descriptor as it has always been the #1 backer of the state of Israel. At least one side wasn’t planning on mass murder in the streets and blanket abductions to black sites? Pick and choose though, ammirite?!
Actually, they were very much planning on and doing mass murders in the streets and abductions to black sites, they just were doing it 1000s of kms away in Palestine instead of doing it at home.
Genocide and mass murder in the streets are Genocide and mass murder in the streets even when they’re not happening at home, the fact that you think who it’s being done to makes one instance “less evil” than the other is just chauvinism and white supremacy.
Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware Palestinians are currently not being ousted from their homes and territories and summarily raped, imprisoned and executed. Thank God those liberals aren’t in power eh? They were going to do it then times harder, right?
Not only are you trying to deflect criticism but you are doing so with a straw-man, pathetic.
The point isn’t any illusion that the Reps aren’t doing those things, the point is that the fact the Dems are doing the same thing shows that they aren’t any better or any less evil than the Reps.
Liberals do not consider non-white people to be human example #9999999
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Are the tankies in the room with us right now?
Yes 😈
Communists are left, the democrats are right, along with the republicans.
There is no left in the west.
If you’re pro capitalism you’re not left. “Talkies” are anti-capitalist so they’re left
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“You just want us to stop cooperating with the good cop so the bad cop comes and busts our face”
-something a prisoner with Stockholm syndrome says to the people who are trying to organize a prison break
This has to be trolling right? There’s no way you misunderstand the issue “tankies” have with electoralism this badly unless you’re doing it purposefully.
No? The goal of communists is to establish communism. Whether the DNC or GOP wins, fascism remains in the US Empire.
