You’re making the argument that Venezuela is poor not because of sanctions and embargos, but personal choices by a democratically elected leader that has promoted and carried out poverty alleviation campaigns and pushed for food security through large social programs.

Of course, they have people dedicated to finding evidence and distorting it to present pro-imperial narratives, and fund them well.

The problem with the liberal definition is that it’s meant to erase capitalism from its natural, systemic compulsion towards imperialism, making it more of a policy choice. The Marxist understanding of imperialism is deeper and more accurate. You can think of the liberal definition as overly simplistic, broad, vague, and with no analysis of why countries become empires, while the Marxist understanding is deeper, more complex, more observable, and explains why some countries become empires (and thus gain massive amounts of wealth from their neocolonies), and their neocolonies remain underdeveloped.

You gave no examples of Maduro “being an authoritarian,” and then cited more western NGOs. Of course the empire trying to manufacture consent to coup Venezuela would do that, they did it to Allende too. Repeating “Maduro is a dictator” like a mantra isn’t a substitute for explaining how and why that’s true, and citing western NGOs is just parroting what the empire wants you to.

The USSR, PRC, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. all were massive expansions on democracy and working class control. They were finally free and just for the working classes, and society became more about trying to satisfy everyone’s needs than endless private profits, with public ownership as the principle aspect of their economies.

The USSR, PRC, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. all were massive expansions on democracy and working class control. Capitalists, landlords, fascists, monarchists, etc were (usually) violently oppressed, while the working classes were uplifted and society was democratized. From the point of view of the capitalists, they found themselves living in a violent dictatorship, for the working classes they found themselves finally escaping violent dictatorship.

Crimea and the people of the Donbass region both voted to join Russia. In fact, the Donetsk and Luhanks People’s Republics, the ones being ethnically cleansed by the far-right Banderites in Kiev that have been in power since the 2014 western-backed Euromaidan coup, specifically requested assistance from Russia in 2022. Belarus and Georgia having close economic ties is not the same as imperialism. You also have no evidence of neocolonialism, trade with Russia is closer to south-south trade as it doesn’t have a monopoly on the goods it exports like gas and nuclear power plants, and as such African countries are developing more via trade with Russia and China while being underdeveloped by the west.

China is a socialist country. They have markets, but that doesn’t mean they have a “mix” of capitalism and socialism. Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy, and the state is under the control of the working classes. There is no “real estate crisis,” housing prices were kept low and no longer able to be used as an investment vehicle. The “ghost cities” are smart urban development, and most are habited after being developed. This kind of thinking ahead is possible because of socialism.

You also have no evidence of “debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty,” or “undermining labor movements.” China regularly forgives loans, doesn’t requore privatization of publicly owned industry or force austerity like the IMF does, and has been doing huge work in developing and building up the global south with more south-south trade.

What’s going on here is it’s absolutely unacceptable for you to admit that the west is the worst, by far, out of that trio. China is genuinely a progressive state with mass popular support internally and internationally, governed by a communist party. Russia is seeing rising support for socialism internally, and is higher up on the list of candidates for new socialist countried because of it. The west is the indisuputed world empire, helmed by the US, and this empire is projecting hard onto other countries as it exports genocide and plunders the world on its way out.

Absolutely. Venezuela is genuinely what self-described demsocs want, the Empire just doesn’t care and will kill you regardless of how procedural and by international law your socialism is.

Bay of Piglets, more like, haha. No one talks about it because it’s unsavory for the imperialist saber rattling going on right now.

Yes, I linked the UN allegations, as well as China’s response and Qiao Collective’s comprehensive resource list. The UN report was the allegations, the rest is the response to them.

Ah, gotcha. Yea, you made it seem like OP was so far left/right it wrapped around, which isn’t what’s going on (or something that happens).

Yep, it’s kinda funny when they get upset at getting called out for it too.

I was absolutely good-faith. I don’t agree with describing Maduro as a dictator, and I gave my reasoning. Are you referring to the bit at the end, where GrammarPolice made a couple of posts on MWoG that you commented on? I think it’s fair to call that out.

Edie is being sarcastic, btw.

What makes Maduro an dictator? He’s popularly supported, was democratically elected, and is setting up participatory systems in the economy. I can agree that he’s “authoritarian” against capitalists and fascists, but that’s absolutely a good use of authority.

Secondly, there’s no evidence to the notion that “power corrupts,” just correlation. In systems like capitalism, corrupt leaders are pushed upwards because that’s profitable, it wasn’t the power that corrupted them but a system that selects for corruption.

Tell the cryptofash on MeanwhileOnGrad that they’re a hoot, btw.

NATO is the millitary alliance of the world’s imperialist powers. This group of countries uses this alliance to prevent the global south from going against it and liberating themselved from foreign plunder via overwhelming financial domination. The way imperialism tends to work in the modern day is countries like the US, France, Germany, UK, etc expropriate vast wealth from countries in the global south, similar to how capitalists steal value created by the working class.

NATO is as “defensive” as the Iron Dome in Israel. These countries export genocide and terrorism on the third world, expropriate huge sums of wealth, and then “defend” against anyone that pushes back against that.

That’s the joke, though. It isn’t horseshoe theory, implying the far left and right are the same or more similar than different, it’s just a joke about the DPRK using red white and blue in their flag.

The general Marxist take is that when Yanukovych was offered an IMF loan that required austerity policies and privatization of safety nets, and a Russian loan that did not come with the same restrictions, he went with the Russian loan and was couped for it, including a western-supported Banderite false-flag shooting. Following the western-supported coup, the areas in the Donbass region seceded, as they supported Yanukovych, are culturally and ethnically Russian, and were unhappy with the Banderites taking over the government under the cover of “democracy.” Said Banderites were also legally suppressing the Russian language in the Donbass region.

What ensued was a decade of fighting, 2 failed Minsk agreements that Kiev broke and admitted to never wanting to follow, and massive risk of NATO on Russia’s doorstep. The Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics requested Russian assistance, and Russia complied, sparking the next stage of the war.

Russia purely wants the Donbass region and NATO neutrality. They want the Donbass region not out of the kindness of their hearts, nor for plunder or further expansion, but because it’s a land bridge straight to Russia, the same route the Nazis took in World War II. NATO was building up because the West uses their millitary to threaten countries into opening up their economies to foreign plunder (like what’s happening right now in Venezuela), a tradition employed since NATO was founded, destroyed Yugoslavia and Libya, etc.

This is the common Marxist take, shared largely by PSL’s statement and FRSO’s statement. Essentially, the war is tragic, should end as quickly as possible, and was provoked by the west.

Venezuela is legitimately closer to what reformist socialists want than any other nation in the world, and the self-described demsocs still hate them for it. Venezuela carries on the legacy of the Bolivar revolution, but in general has been far more reformist in practice, and this is proving to be an angle the US Empire is taking advantage of to destabilize Venezuela. Venezuela’s destiny should be decided by Venezuelans, not the US Empire. The lesson here is that westerners typically do not care how procedural your approach to establishing socialism is, the US Empire will kill you regardless.

Trump’s entire imperialist cabinet roughly orbit around the idea of the election being stolen, and are the biggest pushers of claims of fraud. The reasoning for the former was to try to overturn turn the US election, the reasoning is the same for the Venezuelan election, they would rather have the fascist opposition win. It’s another Allende situation.