“LiFe iS fUll Of chOOsIng tHe lEsSer oF twO eVilS.”
Do you have any actual arguments or just instant noodle armchair truisms?
“Lesser evils” are only worth choosing if the difference between the 2 evils is big enough to have an impact. In this case it isn’t, both parties are genocidal gangs with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The only difference between the 2 is what they say when they know the public can hear them (and even then their rhetoric is getting more and more similar) and what the corporate owned media says about them, but in practice, when it comes to quality of life, repression, violence, wages, legislation, etc… aka metrics that actually matters, there is virtually no difference between the 2.
Ah well, if there’s no difference you can vote for the side building concentration camps in the US then I guess. I mean, the DHS is literally unfunded at the moment because democratic lawmakers are demanding ICE reform.
Or, if you start your own party let me know, I’ll vote for ya. 😉
Aka they are okay with violent forced deportations as long as it’s done ✨ legaly ✨.
Why do you assume the Democrats wouldn’t build concentration camps as well btw? No, because last I checked, the Dems didn’t do shit about kids in cages, forced prison labor or the US’s torture prisons like Guantanamo and gave more budget than Trump to the Trump border wall not to mention their support and funding of literal concentration camps in Israel. Does that sound like the actions of a party that wouldn’t build concentration in the US to you? Because it sure as heck doesn’t to me.
In my opinion, if the Dems had been elected they would have done it and justified it with their classic pr technique of letting the Reps vote whatever they want in congress while they stand by and pretend like they couldn’t do anything about it despite their candidate being in office and go “well, the law is in the book now so we have to play along” like they did with Roe v Wade.
Yes they were, but it wasn’t as bad, which is sort of the whole point.
Would you rather have hand-wringing neoliberals with some accountability, or hardcore right wing authoritarian nazi republicans with no accountability?
One leads to a new holocaust in the US, the other leads back to the status quo. Take your pick.
Oh, ok. So when you said they weren’t, you were lying?
Would you rather have hand-wringing neoliberals with some accountability, or hardcore right wing authoritarian nazi republicans with no accountability?
Given that, unlike most liberals, I consider foreigners to be human, both of them are genocidal fascists.
One leads to a new holocaust in the US, the other leads back to the status quo.
As ever, shitlibs only care about human life within the US border. And the status quo was both monstrous and what lead directly to the current situation, so wanting to Retvrn to it is some reactionary shit
You’re being chauvinist. You may not want to admit it, but it’s the only way this position makes sense.
Your “lesser evil” logic only works if you implicitly treat people in the imperial periphery as expendable, as if our suffering matters less than your domestic anxieties. Your entire framework centers US comfort while mass death abroad becomes background noise.
Who backed the genocide in Gaza?
Who destroyed Libya and turned it into a failed state with open slave markets?
Who armed proxies that helped give rise to ISIS in Syria?
Who backed decades of rape and mass killing in Afghanistan?
It was bipartisan. Every time. Enthusiastically bipartisan.
Permanent war, sanctions, coups, and the immiseration of the Global South are the foundation of the system. Democrats and Republicans agree on this completely.
So when you say “one leads to fascism and the other leads back to the status quo,” you leave out the key point: the status quo already depends on mass death elsewhere. Your stability is subsidized by bombs, blockades, and starvation.
Yes, Republicans are more “meaner” at home. Democrats use nicer language. That’s PR. Democrats provide legitimacy for the same imperial machine while managing the decline more “politely”.
From Palestine to Haiti, there is no meaningful lesser evil just continuous catastrophe.
Your argument boils down to: as long as things don’t get too bad too fast here, everything else is negotiable.
Look, I don’t disagree, I just don’t have a decent opinion on how to repair a hundred years of US hegemonic abuse. I can only tell you that if we don’t put forth an electable democrat, it will get much worse for everyone.
If you want to help fix my chauvinism, I need something other than laying the history of American foreign policy violence at my feet.
Nobody else can fix your chauvinism for you. That takes introspection. You need to start considering the rest of us as fully human whose suffering is not secondary to your comfort.
The facts are:
Both parties support the imperialist empire.
Both fund genocide, sanctions, coups, and proxy wars.
Both uphold capitalism and the systematically broken policing system.
Both expand surveillance and repression.
“Voting blue” has never stopped any of this, it just puts a nicer face on it, the equivalent of sticking a smiling face sticker on the orphan crushing machine.
If you actually want to do something:
Stop treating Democrats as harm reduction.
Consider third-party or abstention instead of laundering war crimes with your vote.
Join a communist organization.
Study theory.
Do material work in your community.
Organize. Build power locally.
Arm yourself.
Do literally anything other than vote for a war criminal every 2-4 years.
If you want to vote, vote just stop trying to justify yourself as super moral for voting for the personable war criminal over the more openly cruel one.
Chauvinism aside, this would be a terrible time to vote for a third party, and by no means am I trying to present it as “morally superior”. You’re trying to fix a broken system, and I’m trying to keep it intact long enough to prevent it from exploding and killing even more people.
After we get Trump out of office, we can start dismantling western chauvinism.
I mean if we’re talking actual substance, the scale does come into play. It’s not a clean cut “they’re both equally evil” scenario unless you’re happy to ignore the difference between atrocities and vastly better funded atrocities. ICE funding increased by an order of magnitude under Trump 2. I mean it’s literally over 10x now what it was a decade ago, and almost all of that is from the budget bill from 2025
Life is full of choosing the lesser of two evils.
Okay, so become a communist.
“LiFe iS fUll Of chOOsIng tHe lEsSer oF twO eVilS.”
Do you have any actual arguments or just instant noodle armchair truisms?
“Lesser evils” are only worth choosing if the difference between the 2 evils is big enough to have an impact. In this case it isn’t, both parties are genocidal gangs with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The only difference between the 2 is what they say when they know the public can hear them (and even then their rhetoric is getting more and more similar) and what the corporate owned media says about them, but in practice, when it comes to quality of life, repression, violence, wages, legislation, etc… aka metrics that actually matters, there is virtually no difference between the 2.
Ah well, if there’s no difference you can vote for the side building concentration camps in the US then I guess. I mean, the DHS is literally unfunded at the moment because democratic lawmakers are demanding ICE reform.
Or, if you start your own party let me know, I’ll vote for ya. 😉
Aka they are okay with violent forced deportations as long as it’s done ✨ legaly ✨.
Why do you assume the Democrats wouldn’t build concentration camps as well btw? No, because last I checked, the Dems didn’t do shit about kids in cages, forced prison labor or the US’s torture prisons like Guantanamo and gave more budget than Trump to the Trump border wall not to mention their support and funding of literal concentration camps in Israel. Does that sound like the actions of a party that wouldn’t build concentration in the US to you? Because it sure as heck doesn’t to me.
In my opinion, if the Dems had been elected they would have done it and justified it with their classic pr technique of letting the Reps vote whatever they want in congress while they stand by and pretend like they couldn’t do anything about it despite their candidate being in office and go “well, the law is in the book now so we have to play along” like they did with Roe v Wade.
Democrats were literally building concentration camps and funding ICE when they were in power too.
Yes they were, but it wasn’t as bad, which is sort of the whole point.
Would you rather have hand-wringing neoliberals with some accountability, or hardcore right wing authoritarian nazi republicans with no accountability?
One leads to a new holocaust in the US, the other leads back to the status quo. Take your pick.
Oh, ok. So when you said they weren’t, you were lying?
Given that, unlike most liberals, I consider foreigners to be human, both of them are genocidal fascists.
As ever, shitlibs only care about human life within the US border. And the status quo was both monstrous and what lead directly to the current situation, so wanting to Retvrn to it is some reactionary shit
You’re being chauvinist. You may not want to admit it, but it’s the only way this position makes sense.
Your “lesser evil” logic only works if you implicitly treat people in the imperial periphery as expendable, as if our suffering matters less than your domestic anxieties. Your entire framework centers US comfort while mass death abroad becomes background noise.
Who backed the genocide in Gaza? Who destroyed Libya and turned it into a failed state with open slave markets? Who armed proxies that helped give rise to ISIS in Syria? Who backed decades of rape and mass killing in Afghanistan?
It was bipartisan. Every time. Enthusiastically bipartisan.
Permanent war, sanctions, coups, and the immiseration of the Global South are the foundation of the system. Democrats and Republicans agree on this completely.
So when you say “one leads to fascism and the other leads back to the status quo,” you leave out the key point: the status quo already depends on mass death elsewhere. Your stability is subsidized by bombs, blockades, and starvation.
Yes, Republicans are more “meaner” at home. Democrats use nicer language. That’s PR. Democrats provide legitimacy for the same imperial machine while managing the decline more “politely”.
From Palestine to Haiti, there is no meaningful lesser evil just continuous catastrophe.
Your argument boils down to: as long as things don’t get too bad too fast here, everything else is negotiable.
That’s peak chauvinism.
Look, I don’t disagree, I just don’t have a decent opinion on how to repair a hundred years of US hegemonic abuse. I can only tell you that if we don’t put forth an electable democrat, it will get much worse for everyone.
If you want to help fix my chauvinism, I need something other than laying the history of American foreign policy violence at my feet.
Nobody else can fix your chauvinism for you. That takes introspection. You need to start considering the rest of us as fully human whose suffering is not secondary to your comfort.
The facts are: Both parties support the imperialist empire. Both fund genocide, sanctions, coups, and proxy wars. Both uphold capitalism and the systematically broken policing system. Both expand surveillance and repression. “Voting blue” has never stopped any of this, it just puts a nicer face on it, the equivalent of sticking a smiling face sticker on the orphan crushing machine.
If you actually want to do something: Stop treating Democrats as harm reduction. Consider third-party or abstention instead of laundering war crimes with your vote. Join a communist organization. Study theory. Do material work in your community. Organize. Build power locally. Arm yourself. Do literally anything other than vote for a war criminal every 2-4 years.
If you want to vote, vote just stop trying to justify yourself as super moral for voting for the personable war criminal over the more openly cruel one.
Chauvinism aside, this would be a terrible time to vote for a third party, and by no means am I trying to present it as “morally superior”. You’re trying to fix a broken system, and I’m trying to keep it intact long enough to prevent it from exploding and killing even more people.
After we get Trump out of office, we can start dismantling western chauvinism.
Remember six years ago when you put forth an electable democrat, and it continued to get much worse for everyone?
I mean, I didn’t put her forth, I wanted Bernie. Everything got worse because she didn’t get elected. I guess she wasn’t that electable.
Self-parody achieved
The point is more to joke that the two party system sucks, but one side is “better”.
You outright tried to claim that Democrats weren’t doing it until you were challenged.
Right, except it isn’t better, it just has better PR. The substance of the atrocities remains the same, only the presentation changes
I mean if we’re talking actual substance, the scale does come into play. It’s not a clean cut “they’re both equally evil” scenario unless you’re happy to ignore the difference between atrocities and vastly better funded atrocities. ICE funding increased by an order of magnitude under Trump 2. I mean it’s literally over 10x now what it was a decade ago, and almost all of that is from the budget bill from 2025