Democrats spent the last year asking where their Joe Rogan was. Hasan Piker is one of the few left-wing figures with the audience they covet — but the party is deeply hostile to the spontaneity and independence that make figures like him appealing.
Democrats spent the last year asking where their Joe Rogan was. Hasan Piker is one of the few left-wing figures with the audience they covet — but the party is deeply hostile to the spontaneity and independence that make figures like him appealing.
The party is deeply hostile to anything that questions capitalism and the status quo. They’re shooting themselves in the foot, again, by wanting to push Hasan away as a messenger. He clearly appeals to a certain demographic under the left’s umbrella.
agreed, they want a coalition sized vote without acknowledging any of the concerns having that size of a vote needs. Bunch of spoiled rich crooked babies who refuse to do the hard work of leading… and then they repeatedly lose and try to blame everyone else for their lack of attention to the voters who dont feel represented.
Yep. And let’s not forget, just as recently as a year ago, Lemmy would ban people for saying “both parties suck.” And anyone who supported third-parties were pounded on and called russians and nazis. That still happens, but not as much anymore, thank goodness.
Finally more and more people here are starting to come around to realizing that neither the democrats nor the republicans want to help us plebs.
Both parties do suck and as long as people keep shooing away third-party voters, they’ll continue to suck. Remember guys, the only reason third-parties are weak is because you all refuse to support them.
Oh interesting. Good to know.
That was almost single handedly the mod named jordanlund. He seems to have changed his behavior recently. Maybe.
He absolutely has not but will completely deny ever doing it
I can’t/won’t name names, but I will say, seems like ya were definitely around during those times!
He does seem to have changed his behaviour a lot, as have many others. So not sure if it’s because of reality or trying to not get called out now, but it’s still refreshing to see positive changes when it comes to ban hammers.
Yeah, and especially before the elections. I was here mid-2024. Holy shit, you have no idea how crazy it was then. People on Lemmy were so blinded by NotTrump!!!, that they would pounce on anyone who criticized the Democratic party.
I remember when Biden was starting to show bad signs of him not being all there mentally. Lemmy ignored it. Even during the famous presidential debate where it couldn’t be ignored that he was not fit, Lemmy downvoted and removed posts about it. Until finally, the tide turned and everyone started to admit it. Then the Harris choice.
Now, it’s pretty ok to criticize about how Harris was picked and how badly the Democratic party handled it. But at the time, oh hell no.
I remember being called a racist and a nazi for saying, “I don’t know about Harris. She seems kind of bland and parrots Biden, I wish we had someone more independent.” The shitstorm I got for that. People stalking me, downvoting all my posts, trying to find out where I lived, etc. DM’s that told me to kill myself. Every day. All because I said Harris was a bland candidate. lololol
I had a guy trying to doxx me and find out where I lived by looking for clues in photos I posted of me walking in a park, so I had to change usernames and block all the political comms. Fucking crazy.
Even tho now a lot more people on Lemmy agree with things that match up to what I said then, not one single apology. Not one. Some of the people who openly attacked me, now even say the exact same things I said then.
I was “both parties suck” before it was cool. :)
Now having said that, if the democratic party can find a young person, with drive and who’s independent and who really wants to changes things up, I could be on board. I like AOC. So her or someone like her would make me change my mind.
But until that happens, nah…both parties suck. lol
That sounds eerily like Reddit at the same time. I was absolutely lambasted for speaking up about Harris’ messaging on Israel and such.
Lemmy may not be quite as different from Reddit as we want to claim.
Definitely not. In fact, we gotta realize that a lot of people are here because they were too extreme for Reddit. So we are like the nerdier, meaner, more anti-social reddit.
I still like the idea of Lemmy, but the attitude of a lot of people here is turning me off. So many users seem to think censorship and exclusion are perfectly fine, as long as it’s the ‘correct’ side doing it. They don’t realize they’re acting exactly like the Republicans they claim to hate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
Again, being called out on your bullshit isn’t the same thing as being “censored.” If you’re feeling “excluded,” well, that’s what happens when you’re wrong and refuse to see it.
Me saying that I support third parties because I was unhappy with both democrat and republican parties, isn’t being “called out” on my “bullshit.” It was fucking censorship.
I was called a nazi and a racist and a Trumper for saying that. None of it was true. How is that being called out?
Do you realize that what you said about Harris in your comments, would have been ban-worthy back in 2024 just before the election? Do you think that’s ok?!
Because of the way the US electoral system works, supporting a third party is equivalent to supporting the candidate you wanted least. You were helping Trump, in factual and objective reality, whether you admit it or not. And helping Trump means those labels fit.
And having your feelings hurt because somebody accurately described what you did still isn’t censorship, no matter how much you want to pretend it to be.
LOL. I did say those things back then, and yet I’m still here. QED.
Yeah, because context matters. The political environment when you’re in the middle of the general election and infighting accomplishes fuck-all except to help the enemy is entirety different from the one when it’s time to find new primary candidates and there’s an opportunity for dissent to actually serve a useful purpose.
Weird how attempting to control peoples opinions online didn’t win Harris the presidency then.
Maybe the focus should’ve been on earnestly listening to concerns from the leftists under the umbrella instead of silencing them.
Well said!
IT WAS TOO FUCKING LATE FOR THAT! Harris was the candidate. End of. There was zero possibility of replacing her with somebody more leftist. The choices were only “vote for Harris” or “help Trump.” That’s it.
Game theory is MATH, not an opinion!
Did you think I wanted that class traitor prosecutor bitch either?! Fuck, no! But, being someone who isn’t a goddamn drooling moron, I realized that Trump was even worse and held my nose. That’s how the system works, and it does not care how much you or I both hate it.
Nobody was trying to “control people’s opinions;” we were trying to stop you from making an objective mathematical error that would destroy us all.
It wasn’t too fucking late for Harris to change messaging though.
You failed then.
Now you are seeing how it was back then. Imagine the guy you’re responding to, and 100 more just like him ganging up on ya. And just as angry, stubborn, and mad as he is.
That’s how it was back then. lolol
It’s like I never left Reddit lol
Harris is a neoliberal piece of shit. She wasn’t going to change, no matter how much any of us whined or threatened to withhold our votes over it!
You could either understand that and work to reduce harm, or fuck up and ruin everyone’s lives because you were too stubborn or stupid to accept factual reality.
Or vote third party. Which I proudly did. And will do again unless the Democrats stop fucking shit up.
So why didn’t you speak up? Was it because you knew Lemmy would censor you? Do you think it’s right to censor someone for what you just said?
The system is like that because you refuse to support third-party support. By you refusing to validate third parties, they don’t have the pull they should have. But if EVERYONE voted third party, guess what? Shit would start to change. You are actually part of the problem, not the solution.
And how did that work out for you? What ended up happening?
That’s a lie. “Vote third party” is a subset of “help Trump.”
grue, I dont vote for genociders, full stop. Harris was going to continue Bidens support of zionism, thats just a fact. If we must literally feed the bodies of innocents and children into the gears of our “democracy” or it explodes, I say let it explode ASAP, because you’ll just be voting for more genocide next election too, wont you.
Have the zionists relinquished their hold on the democratic party? No. Have the dem leaders kicked them out? No.
Maybe if you took the time to take a stand on that too our leaders would see they cant win by taking that position. Your “harm minimization” is short term thinking and just delays the inevitable. Sooner or later this has to happen, so lets do it now instead of after we have even more blood on our hands. You’re just spending other people lives to stall for time.
Well said, brother.
The blood is on your hands anyway, because you had the chance to reduce harm and refused. In fact, it has accelerated and spread because of the actions of people like you.
I knew this would happen. I warned people like you that this would happen. And the last year has proven me correct.
You can deny it all you want, but that doesn’t change reality.
Thanks for proving my point. I bet ya miss the lemmy times right before the 2024 election, huh? I bet you hate seeing how many people are pro-third party these days! lololEDIT: A little too much snark, but poster is definitely showing how angry some people can be when it comes to third-party talk.No, I don’t. Why? Because NOW is the time that we SHOULD be trying to replace the neoliberals!
Could you quit your trolling for just a goddamn second and actually COMPREHEND what I’ve been writing?!
So do you agree with the censorship we had back then? Do you think it’s ok to call people nazis, russians, and racists, just because they didn’t support either of the two major parties?
I’m assuming you don’t, but that was happening. And not just to me.
Dude, I had a guy DM’ing me telling me he was going to find out where I lived and post it on Lemmy so I could “find out what happens.” Even tho that is against pretty much every single instance rule of any instance. All because I didn’t think Harris was a great choice and I didn’t think she could beat Trump.
Guess what? That guy is still on lemmy, and has a huge fucking list of bad shit in his mod history. But he’s still here. Lemmy didn’t care at all that he did that, and felt it was fair play, because I said both parties suck. Or as they like to make fun of back then: “bOtH PaRtIeS!”
I don’t care what political environment was going on, trying to censor and get rid of people who weren’t 100 percent on the Democrat Train back then was wrong.
Not only that, I feel vindicated. I see lots of people openly saying the same stuff now that I was saying then. And now it’s not so taboo. But does that mean we’re gonna have the same censorship in 2028? And if so, will be ok?
I’m not being snarky, I’d really like your opinion.
First of all, being called out isn’t “censorship.” You haven’t given any examples of being censored (i.e. having your comments deleted by the mods or admins); you’ve only complained about how other users treated you.
Second, There were exactly two reasons to advocate against voting for Harris, once she was the candidate:
In other words, those labels were accurate because such people were materially helping the nazis, Russians, and racists.
I agree that doxxing you is not okay and that he should’ve been banned for it.
But you’re either confused or not telling the whole story, because there is no such thing as “Lemmy” as a monolithic entity that can have a single opinion like that. You’re actually talking about the decision of one admin of one instance, but attempting to crucify everyone on the entire network for it. (Or at least, everyone who doesn’t conform to your particular viewpoint, which is a bit ironic for somebody complaining about being censored.)
Because NOW it’s appropriate! BACK THEN it was objectively a mistake, and the passage of time does not retroactively change that!
In 2028 – if we even have free and fair elections at all, because that’s how catastrophic your preferred outcome has been! – I will be there begging, pleading and screaming for you to quit trying to help the fascists by telling people not to vote for the candidate opposing them. And it will continue to NOT BE CENSORSHIP because that’s not what censorship is.
Like I am gonna go down that path. I had comments removed, I was banned from multiple communities, some literally said, I was banned for “bOtH sIdEs.” Dude, I had people trying to dox me. You’d love me to post proof wouldn’t ya? Because then all the doxxing would start to happen again. Nah…thanks, but not thanks.
See above. Also, I realize that Lemmy isn’t one person, but I think it’s pretty much common knowledge that most of lemmy has the same opinion about lots of things. Just like when people say “The United States thinks…” doesn’t actually mean every single person in the US, but what you feel is a vast majority. Same thing, guy.
It was never appropriate to censor differing opinions. Especially on a platform as small as Lemmy. Every single person in Lemmy could have voted for Harris, and it wouldn’t have done fuck all to change the election. There just aren’t that many people on Lemmy.
You are legit just saying, “Oh, well it was a different time back then…” Think about that. Hmmm, how many people on the wrong side of history have said that about their actions. Think about that.
What makes you think I wanted Trump to win? I didn’t vote for him. We have the right to vote for whoever we want to win, regardless of odds or “math.” If I wanted Trump to win, I could have voted for him. But I didn’t. Because he wasn’t my choice. Just because your candidate lost, don’t get mad at me.
Even if every single person who voted third party, put their vote towards Harris, she still would have lost. That’s how bad the margin was. If you wanna be mad, be mad at the people who didn’t vote.
Better yet, be mad at the party you voted for, who chose a lackluster candidate who lost. :)
Sure you can yell if you want. I support your right to do that. I support your right to vote for whoever you want. But shouldn’t you support my right to as well? And I don’t think yelling at me is censorship. I think removing my posts, trying to brigade downvote me, follow me around on Lemmy downvoting out of spite, and trying supporting efforts to block me is censorship (not as in legal definition).
Thanks for commenting. You providing a great example of how mad people were about going against the tide in those days.
I’m still trying to have a good-faith discussion here, so I’m just going to ignore the top half of your comment.
NO I AM NOT!
I am explaining why the different circumstances at that time were – or at least, should’ve been – relevant to your decision-making.
You refused to vote for the only person who could beat him.
Harris was not “my candidate,” and I’m mad at you because your delusional fuck-up helped destroy my children’s future! This was not ‘just another election’ where the other team won. American democracy itself is systematically being dismantled. It is an existential threat that America will not ever recover from if it’s not stopped soon (and even then, it’s a long shot). I am seriously considering fleeing the country because of people like you! Thousands are dead in Palestine, Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran, and the US itself because people like you were asked to do harm reduction and refused!
(Of course you’re gonna say something like “it’s not my fault, it’s MAGA’s fault.” And sure, I’m even madder at the fascists themselves, obviously. But I’m bothering to argue with you about it instead of them because, unlike them, I think people like you are still capable of seeing the error of your ways.)
Because ‘the tide’ is literally what wins elections, and so going against it is how you lose!
How so? I already told you that if every single third party voter had voted for Harris, she would still have lost. That’s how large the margin of loss was for her. The party that you suppport picked her. And you still support them. That’s on you, guy. Not me. As long as you continue to support them and the “No matter who, vote blue” mindset, what reason do they have to change? You are enabling them.
Good luck. I think you’ll find out that lots of countries are even more strict than we are when it comes to immigration policies. To find a country that would accept you and that’s better or even as good as the US is gonna be tough. It’s slim pickings out there.
Discouraging people from voting for Harris didn’t just result in them voting third-party, it also resulted in them not voting at all.
They change by having people with better ideology win the primaries. That requires participating in the system, not picking up your ball and going home like a petulant child!
I am painfully aware. Of course, my standards will lower and thus the selection will expand as the US continues to be destroyed. So, thanks, I guess.
I think this is a good take from the Sam Seder crew regarding how new media operates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BACFyzIjehQ
Because of media fragmentation, two things. First, the vast majority of people do not know who Hasan Piker is. It’s a big fragmented media landscape, so most people don’t know who “everyone” else is in the media landscape. If you listen to Meidas Touch or Don Lemon, you probably have no clue who Hassan is.
Second… People get whatever content they are going to get from whichever podcasts or news programs they like, and in general, they like the personality of the people they’ve developed trust in to give them the news or media analysis. People who know who Hassan is, they like him.
It’s a form of positive selection bias. People like who they know and they know who they are because they like them. It’s why they’ve come to know them.
The Hassan derangement syndrome thing is real and it brings no one to the table. It only serves to appease a small group of donors and only hurts the Democrats.
The important part, though, is that establishment democrats and the consultant class over-value the type of media that participates in this derangement.
So we’ll (again) end up with a democratic establishment that turns their shoulder to leftist independent creators and they will (again) lose and blame those same people
Amanda Litman (who runs the Run For Something organization) just wrote a nice piece about the Hassan vs Democrat Party conundrum:
(substack, I know, I know)
https://amandalitman.substack.com/p/build-a-bigger-tent-wait-no-not-like
This was a great read, thanks for sharing.
Oh that will be fun. Thanks .
I know who Cenk’s nephew is. Not a fan of either one. Though Hasan is definitely better than his uncle. That’s a low bar.
Hasan gets some pretty stupid ideas in his head. However more often than not he has absolutely found himself on the right side. And I will absolutely commend him and others for going to Cuba to deliver aid. Amid our fascist’s manufactured fuel shortage.
He’s certainly a character. I find him somewhat insufferable, at least in mannerisms, but it’s probably because I’m older. Chewing into the microphone, eating on camera, China glazing, arguing with chat. But clearly as media and taste’s have changed, enough people like Hasan enough to build him up as the bugfest leftwing content creator.
But if you want to know where things are going and what people believe, how they get to those beliefs, you gotta at least recognize them as a political agent. And I do like their focus on media analysis (similar to Majority Report in this regard). They aren’t covering the news if the day, they are covering how the news if the day is presented. Same as watching Meidas Touch to get an idea for what that audience is thinking, or Jim Acosta for understanding that crowd, or Don Lemon or Sabby Sabs, or TYT or dropsite or zeteo and on and on. If you want to know what audiences are being exposed to you gotta go to where that exposure is happening and watch and listen.
And in that landscape, well, Hasan is kinda a gorilla. Just, no left of center anyone is putting up numbers like Hasan does; not even by 10x. Outside of billionaire funded astroturfed RW channels, no one else has the numbers.
Like it’s not about if I like Hasan or not, like, if they are to my taste. It’s about whose got the numbers then trying to understand why. And Hasan speaks to a pretty unrepresented coalition of people who are far from rightwing, and also, far from naively supportive of Democrats. And I think it’s because they are willing to be say the quiet parts out loud, like “US deserved 9/11”.
He also taps into a demographic that the Dems have lost in the past - disillusioned young men.
Bad dog. No barking.
Put your shock collar back on and sit in place quietly like a good Hasan fan, @[email protected].
Oh Jesus, this bullshit from Destiny and Saltman has permeated here as well? Gross.
I have no idea who those other streamers are. But I’ve watched several hours of Hasan on his own merit, and that fella is a trog all the way through: The Rogan/Asmongold comparisons are right on the money.
Now sit in your place.
Haha IKR how could you have seen hasan even briefly and not know who destiny is?
All they talk about is eachother lol
Its insufferable. There is no thing I could possibly care less about than the navel gazing drama internal to a particular social media platform.
Oh I’m sure there’s plenty of people who know Hasan exists without ever realizing who Destiny is and I love that for him.
I’m sure it chaps little Stevie’s ass every time.
Just wanted to note that I’ve been enjoying your contributions lately. I perk up when I see TropicalDingDong has entered the conversation :)
same here! Theres a couple commenters on here that consistently make the points I wish I could make as effectively.
You’ve completely lapped up their disinformation campaign while remaining ignorant of their existence then. Almost impressive.
I just refreshed my memory from the KYM dogtober page and both those people are mentioned once, offhand. What else would I know them from?
I did see a video of Hasan dragging his other dog by the tail and yanking it around. Did those other streamers make him do that?
Ethan Klein, Destiny, and Dan Saltman all have a hard on to take Hasan down and collaborate on how to do so frequently. They’re obsessed.
You have fallen for a disinformation campaign.
My dude, you’ve fallen for a cult of personality.