Democrats spent the last year asking where their Joe Rogan was. Hasan Piker is one of the few left-wing figures with the audience they covet — but the party is deeply hostile to the spontaneity and independence that make figures like him appealing.

  • grue@lemmy.world
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    6 hours ago

    So do you agree with the censorship we had back then? Do you think it’s ok to call people nazis, russians, and racists, just because they didn’t support either of the two major parties?

    First of all, being called out isn’t “censorship.” You haven’t given any examples of being censored (i.e. having your comments deleted by the mods or admins); you’ve only complained about how other users treated you.

    Second, There were exactly two reasons to advocate against voting for Harris, once she was the candidate:

    1. The person doing so was an enemy of American democracy (e.g. a nazi or Russian) who was deliberately concern trolling to help Trump win.
    2. The person was too damn stupid to understand the game theory of how the election worked, effectively acting as a useful idiot for the above.

    In other words, those labels were accurate because such people were materially helping the nazis, Russians, and racists.

    Dude, I had a guy DM’ing me telling me he was going to find out where I lived and post it on Lemmy so I could “find out what happens.” Even tho that is against pretty much every single instance rule of any instance. All because I didn’t think Harris was a great choice and I didn’t think she could beat Trump.

    Guess what? That guy is still on lemmy, and has a huge fucking list of bad shit in his mod history. But he’s still here. Lemmy didn’t care at all that he did that, and felt it was fair play, because I said both parties suck. Or as they like to make fun of back then: “bOtH PaRtIeS!”

    I agree that doxxing you is not okay and that he should’ve been banned for it.

    But you’re either confused or not telling the whole story, because there is no such thing as “Lemmy” as a monolithic entity that can have a single opinion like that. You’re actually talking about the decision of one admin of one instance, but attempting to crucify everyone on the entire network for it. (Or at least, everyone who doesn’t conform to your particular viewpoint, which is a bit ironic for somebody complaining about being censored.)

    Not only that, I feel vindicated. I see lots of people openly saying the same stuff now that I was saying then.

    Because NOW it’s appropriate! BACK THEN it was objectively a mistake, and the passage of time does not retroactively change that!

    But does that mean we’re gonna have the same censorship in 2028?

    In 2028 – if we even have free and fair elections at all, because that’s how catastrophic your preferred outcome has been! – I will be there begging, pleading and screaming for you to quit trying to help the fascists by telling people not to vote for the candidate opposing them. And it will continue to NOT BE CENSORSHIP because that’s not what censorship is.

    • PapaSkwat@lemmy.wtf
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      5 hours ago

      You haven’t given any examples of being censored (i.e. having your comments deleted by the mods or admins); you’ve only complained about how other users treated you.

      Like I am gonna go down that path. I had comments removed, I was banned from multiple communities, some literally said, I was banned for “bOtH sIdEs.” Dude, I had people trying to dox me. You’d love me to post proof wouldn’t ya? Because then all the doxxing would start to happen again. Nah…thanks, but not thanks.

      But you’re either confused or not telling the whole story, because there is no such thing as “Lemmy” as a monolithic entity that can have a single opinion like that. You’re actually talking about the decision of one admin of one instance, but attempting to crucify everyone on the entire network for it.

      See above. Also, I realize that Lemmy isn’t one person, but I think it’s pretty much common knowledge that most of lemmy has the same opinion about lots of things. Just like when people say “The United States thinks…” doesn’t actually mean every single person in the US, but what you feel is a vast majority. Same thing, guy.

      Because NOW it’s appropriate! BACK THEN it was objectively a mistake, and the passage of time does not retroactively change that!

      It was never appropriate to censor differing opinions. Especially on a platform as small as Lemmy. Every single person in Lemmy could have voted for Harris, and it wouldn’t have done fuck all to change the election. There just aren’t that many people on Lemmy.

      You are legit just saying, “Oh, well it was a different time back then…” Think about that. Hmmm, how many people on the wrong side of history have said that about their actions. Think about that.

      In 2028 – if we even have free and fair elections at all, because that’s how catastrophic your preferred outcome has been! – I will be there begging, pleading and screaming for you to quit trying to help the fascists by telling people not to vote for the candidate opposing them. And it will continue to NOT BE CENSORSHIP because that’s not what censorship is.

      What makes you think I wanted Trump to win? I didn’t vote for him. We have the right to vote for whoever we want to win, regardless of odds or “math.” If I wanted Trump to win, I could have voted for him. But I didn’t. Because he wasn’t my choice. Just because your candidate lost, don’t get mad at me.

      Even if every single person who voted third party, put their vote towards Harris, she still would have lost. That’s how bad the margin was. If you wanna be mad, be mad at the people who didn’t vote.

      Better yet, be mad at the party you voted for, who chose a lackluster candidate who lost. :)

      And it will continue to NOT BE CENSORSHIP because that’s not what censorship is.

      Sure you can yell if you want. I support your right to do that. I support your right to vote for whoever you want. But shouldn’t you support my right to as well? And I don’t think yelling at me is censorship. I think removing my posts, trying to brigade downvote me, follow me around on Lemmy downvoting out of spite, and trying supporting efforts to block me is censorship (not as in legal definition).

      Thanks for commenting. You providing a great example of how mad people were about going against the tide in those days.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        I’m still trying to have a good-faith discussion here, so I’m just going to ignore the top half of your comment.

        You are legit just saying, “Oh, well it was a different time back then…” Think about that. Hmmm, how many people on the wrong side of history have said that about their actions. Think about that.

        NO I AM NOT!

        I am explaining why the different circumstances at that time were – or at least, should’ve been – relevant to your decision-making.

        What makes you think I wanted Trump to win? I didn’t vote for him.

        You refused to vote for the only person who could beat him.

        Just because your candidate lost, don’t get mad at me.

        Harris was not “my candidate,” and I’m mad at you because your delusional fuck-up helped destroy my children’s future! This was not ‘just another election’ where the other team won. American democracy itself is systematically being dismantled. It is an existential threat that America will not ever recover from if it’s not stopped soon (and even then, it’s a long shot). I am seriously considering fleeing the country because of people like you! Thousands are dead in Palestine, Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran, and the US itself because people like you were asked to do harm reduction and refused!

        (Of course you’re gonna say something like “it’s not my fault, it’s MAGA’s fault.” And sure, I’m even madder at the fascists themselves, obviously. But I’m bothering to argue with you about it instead of them because, unlike them, I think people like you are still capable of seeing the error of your ways.)

        Thanks for commenting. You providing a great example of how mad people were about going against the tide in those days.

        Because ‘the tide’ is literally what wins elections, and so going against it is how you lose!

        • PapaSkwat@lemmy.wtf
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          4 hours ago

          and I’m mad at you because your delusional fuck-up helped destroy my children’s future!

          How so? I already told you that if every single third party voter had voted for Harris, she would still have lost. That’s how large the margin of loss was for her. The party that you suppport picked her. And you still support them. That’s on you, guy. Not me. As long as you continue to support them and the “No matter who, vote blue” mindset, what reason do they have to change? You are enabling them.

          I am seriously considering fleeing the country because of people like you!

          Good luck. I think you’ll find out that lots of countries are even more strict than we are when it comes to immigration policies. To find a country that would accept you and that’s better or even as good as the US is gonna be tough. It’s slim pickings out there.

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            How so?

            Discouraging people from voting for Harris didn’t just result in them voting third-party, it also resulted in them not voting at all.

            As long as you continue to support them and the “No matter who, vote blue” mindset, what reason do they have to change?

            They change by having people with better ideology win the primaries. That requires participating in the system, not picking up your ball and going home like a petulant child!

            Good luck… To find a country that would accept you and that’s better or even as good as the US is gonna be tough.

            I am painfully aware. Of course, my standards will lower and thus the selection will expand as the US continues to be destroyed. So, thanks, I guess.

            • PapaSkwat@lemmy.wtf
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              3 hours ago

              Discouraging people from voting for Harris didn’t just result in them voting third-party, it also resulted in them not voting at all.

              No one on Lemmy was discouraged or persuaded to vote for anyone. You don’t think Lemmy had their minds made up? lolololol come on now, be real. We all know how Lemmy swings.

              They change by having people with better ideology win the primaries.

              Yeah? and now did that work out for you. You all lost against Trump, TWICE! How is that even possible? How did you all fumble the ball so badly?! Twice. Twice!!! lololololol

              I am painfully aware. Of course, my standards will lower and thus the selection will expand as the US continues to be destroyed.

              Yeah? Any good choices you are looking at? I’m in Alaska, so it’s practically a different country up here anyway. Ain’t nowhere I’d rather be in the world. Except maybe for Norway, but they don’t let people stay very easily.

              • grue@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                Yeah? Any good choices you are looking at? I’m in Alaska, so it’s practically a different country up here anyway. Ain’t nowhere I’d rather be in the world. Except maybe for Norway, but they don’t let people stay very easily.

                I’ve been studying French for a while now. The original plan was to buy a sailboat and sail around the world – hence the French, because France still owns a bunch of tropical islands, like Tahiti and Réunion – but the pandemic fucked up my finances so now I’m less confident about being able to afford one big enough for my family to live aboard long-term. So, not sure, really. At this point, I might be thinking in terms of “any reasonably-developed country that’d take me” and continue to live a ‘normal’ urban lifestyle.

                • PapaSkwat@lemmy.wtf
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                  2 hours ago

                  and continue to live a ‘normal’ urban lifestyle.

                  See, that’s a path I just can’t get on. As crazy as I may seem tho, my gf is more more hardcore. She’d be fine without indoor plumbing, but fuck that, I want my fucking hot showers! I’m pretty tough, but she’s tougher. She doesn’t even go online and wouldn’t even check out Lemmy when I was trying to explain it to her. lol

                  • grue@lemmy.world
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                    2 hours ago

                    You don’t seem crazy for your lifestyle; you seem crazy for your political naivete.

                    I actually ‘get’ the whole prepper/homesteading thing, BTW. For me, that lifestyle would be a very close third after “urban/walkable” and “itinerant boat-person,” and come way ahead of “typical car-dependent suburbanite.”