Democrats spent the last year asking where their Joe Rogan was. Hasan Piker is one of the few left-wing figures with the audience they covet — but the party is deeply hostile to the spontaneity and independence that make figures like him appealing.
Democrats spent the last year asking where their Joe Rogan was. Hasan Piker is one of the few left-wing figures with the audience they covet — but the party is deeply hostile to the spontaneity and independence that make figures like him appealing.
Yeah, because context matters. The political environment when you’re in the middle of the general election and infighting accomplishes fuck-all except to help the enemy is entirety different from the one when it’s time to find new primary candidates and there’s an opportunity for dissent to actually serve a useful purpose.
Weird how attempting to control peoples opinions online didn’t win Harris the presidency then.
Maybe the focus should’ve been on earnestly listening to concerns from the leftists under the umbrella instead of silencing them.
Well said!
IT WAS TOO FUCKING LATE FOR THAT! Harris was the candidate. End of. There was zero possibility of replacing her with somebody more leftist. The choices were only “vote for Harris” or “help Trump.” That’s it.
Game theory is MATH, not an opinion!
Did you think I wanted that class traitor prosecutor bitch either?! Fuck, no! But, being someone who isn’t a goddamn drooling moron, I realized that Trump was even worse and held my nose. That’s how the system works, and it does not care how much you or I both hate it.
Nobody was trying to “control people’s opinions;” we were trying to stop you from making an objective mathematical error that would destroy us all.
It wasn’t too fucking late for Harris to change messaging though.
You failed then.
Now you are seeing how it was back then. Imagine the guy you’re responding to, and 100 more just like him ganging up on ya. And just as angry, stubborn, and mad as he is.
That’s how it was back then. lolol
It’s like I never left Reddit lol
Harris is a neoliberal piece of shit. She wasn’t going to change, no matter how much any of us whined or threatened to withhold our votes over it!
You could either understand that and work to reduce harm, or fuck up and ruin everyone’s lives because you were too stubborn or stupid to accept factual reality.
Or vote third party. Which I proudly did. And will do again unless the Democrats stop fucking shit up.
So why didn’t you speak up? Was it because you knew Lemmy would censor you? Do you think it’s right to censor someone for what you just said?
The system is like that because you refuse to support third-party support. By you refusing to validate third parties, they don’t have the pull they should have. But if EVERYONE voted third party, guess what? Shit would start to change. You are actually part of the problem, not the solution.
And how did that work out for you? What ended up happening?
That’s a lie. “Vote third party” is a subset of “help Trump.”
grue, I dont vote for genociders, full stop. Harris was going to continue Bidens support of zionism, thats just a fact. If we must literally feed the bodies of innocents and children into the gears of our “democracy” or it explodes, I say let it explode ASAP, because you’ll just be voting for more genocide next election too, wont you.
Have the zionists relinquished their hold on the democratic party? No. Have the dem leaders kicked them out? No.
Maybe if you took the time to take a stand on that too our leaders would see they cant win by taking that position. Your “harm minimization” is short term thinking and just delays the inevitable. Sooner or later this has to happen, so lets do it now instead of after we have even more blood on our hands. You’re just spending other people lives to stall for time.
Well said, brother.
The blood is on your hands anyway, because you had the chance to reduce harm and refused. In fact, it has accelerated and spread because of the actions of people like you.
I knew this would happen. I warned people like you that this would happen. And the last year has proven me correct.
You can deny it all you want, but that doesn’t change reality.
Thanks for proving my point. I bet ya miss the lemmy times right before the 2024 election, huh? I bet you hate seeing how many people are pro-third party these days! lololEDIT: A little too much snark, but poster is definitely showing how angry some people can be when it comes to third-party talk.No, I don’t. Why? Because NOW is the time that we SHOULD be trying to replace the neoliberals!
Could you quit your trolling for just a goddamn second and actually COMPREHEND what I’ve been writing?!
Then maybe you should stop being pissed off and yelling at people who support other parties.
So disagreeing with you is “trolling”?! I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
No, this is trolling:
It’s telling that you never quote yourself when recounting how ‘unfairly’ you were treated.
So do you agree with the censorship we had back then? Do you think it’s ok to call people nazis, russians, and racists, just because they didn’t support either of the two major parties?
I’m assuming you don’t, but that was happening. And not just to me.
Dude, I had a guy DM’ing me telling me he was going to find out where I lived and post it on Lemmy so I could “find out what happens.” Even tho that is against pretty much every single instance rule of any instance. All because I didn’t think Harris was a great choice and I didn’t think she could beat Trump.
Guess what? That guy is still on lemmy, and has a huge fucking list of bad shit in his mod history. But he’s still here. Lemmy didn’t care at all that he did that, and felt it was fair play, because I said both parties suck. Or as they like to make fun of back then: “bOtH PaRtIeS!”
I don’t care what political environment was going on, trying to censor and get rid of people who weren’t 100 percent on the Democrat Train back then was wrong.
Not only that, I feel vindicated. I see lots of people openly saying the same stuff now that I was saying then. And now it’s not so taboo. But does that mean we’re gonna have the same censorship in 2028? And if so, will be ok?
I’m not being snarky, I’d really like your opinion.
First of all, being called out isn’t “censorship.” You haven’t given any examples of being censored (i.e. having your comments deleted by the mods or admins); you’ve only complained about how other users treated you.
Second, There were exactly two reasons to advocate against voting for Harris, once she was the candidate:
In other words, those labels were accurate because such people were materially helping the nazis, Russians, and racists.
I agree that doxxing you is not okay and that he should’ve been banned for it.
But you’re either confused or not telling the whole story, because there is no such thing as “Lemmy” as a monolithic entity that can have a single opinion like that. You’re actually talking about the decision of one admin of one instance, but attempting to crucify everyone on the entire network for it. (Or at least, everyone who doesn’t conform to your particular viewpoint, which is a bit ironic for somebody complaining about being censored.)
Because NOW it’s appropriate! BACK THEN it was objectively a mistake, and the passage of time does not retroactively change that!
In 2028 – if we even have free and fair elections at all, because that’s how catastrophic your preferred outcome has been! – I will be there begging, pleading and screaming for you to quit trying to help the fascists by telling people not to vote for the candidate opposing them. And it will continue to NOT BE CENSORSHIP because that’s not what censorship is.
Like I am gonna go down that path. I had comments removed, I was banned from multiple communities, some literally said, I was banned for “bOtH sIdEs.” Dude, I had people trying to dox me. You’d love me to post proof wouldn’t ya? Because then all the doxxing would start to happen again. Nah…thanks, but not thanks.
See above. Also, I realize that Lemmy isn’t one person, but I think it’s pretty much common knowledge that most of lemmy has the same opinion about lots of things. Just like when people say “The United States thinks…” doesn’t actually mean every single person in the US, but what you feel is a vast majority. Same thing, guy.
It was never appropriate to censor differing opinions. Especially on a platform as small as Lemmy. Every single person in Lemmy could have voted for Harris, and it wouldn’t have done fuck all to change the election. There just aren’t that many people on Lemmy.
You are legit just saying, “Oh, well it was a different time back then…” Think about that. Hmmm, how many people on the wrong side of history have said that about their actions. Think about that.
What makes you think I wanted Trump to win? I didn’t vote for him. We have the right to vote for whoever we want to win, regardless of odds or “math.” If I wanted Trump to win, I could have voted for him. But I didn’t. Because he wasn’t my choice. Just because your candidate lost, don’t get mad at me.
Even if every single person who voted third party, put their vote towards Harris, she still would have lost. That’s how bad the margin was. If you wanna be mad, be mad at the people who didn’t vote.
Better yet, be mad at the party you voted for, who chose a lackluster candidate who lost. :)
Sure you can yell if you want. I support your right to do that. I support your right to vote for whoever you want. But shouldn’t you support my right to as well? And I don’t think yelling at me is censorship. I think removing my posts, trying to brigade downvote me, follow me around on Lemmy downvoting out of spite, and trying supporting efforts to block me is censorship (not as in legal definition).
Thanks for commenting. You providing a great example of how mad people were about going against the tide in those days.
I’m still trying to have a good-faith discussion here, so I’m just going to ignore the top half of your comment.
NO I AM NOT!
I am explaining why the different circumstances at that time were – or at least, should’ve been – relevant to your decision-making.
You refused to vote for the only person who could beat him.
Harris was not “my candidate,” and I’m mad at you because your delusional fuck-up helped destroy my children’s future! This was not ‘just another election’ where the other team won. American democracy itself is systematically being dismantled. It is an existential threat that America will not ever recover from if it’s not stopped soon (and even then, it’s a long shot). I am seriously considering fleeing the country because of people like you! Thousands are dead in Palestine, Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran, and the US itself because people like you were asked to do harm reduction and refused!
(Of course you’re gonna say something like “it’s not my fault, it’s MAGA’s fault.” And sure, I’m even madder at the fascists themselves, obviously. But I’m bothering to argue with you about it instead of them because, unlike them, I think people like you are still capable of seeing the error of your ways.)
Because ‘the tide’ is literally what wins elections, and so going against it is how you lose!
How so? I already told you that if every single third party voter had voted for Harris, she would still have lost. That’s how large the margin of loss was for her. The party that you suppport picked her. And you still support them. That’s on you, guy. Not me. As long as you continue to support them and the “No matter who, vote blue” mindset, what reason do they have to change? You are enabling them.
Good luck. I think you’ll find out that lots of countries are even more strict than we are when it comes to immigration policies. To find a country that would accept you and that’s better or even as good as the US is gonna be tough. It’s slim pickings out there.
Discouraging people from voting for Harris didn’t just result in them voting third-party, it also resulted in them not voting at all.
They change by having people with better ideology win the primaries. That requires participating in the system, not picking up your ball and going home like a petulant child!
I am painfully aware. Of course, my standards will lower and thus the selection will expand as the US continues to be destroyed. So, thanks, I guess.
No one on Lemmy was discouraged or persuaded to vote for anyone. You don’t think Lemmy had their minds made up? lolololol come on now, be real. We all know how Lemmy swings.
Yeah? and now did that work out for you. You all lost against Trump, TWICE! How is that even possible? How did you all fumble the ball so badly?! Twice. Twice!!! lololololol
Yeah? Any good choices you are looking at? I’m in Alaska, so it’s practically a different country up here anyway. Ain’t nowhere I’d rather be in the world. Except maybe for Norway, but they don’t let people stay very easily.
I’ve been studying French for a while now. The original plan was to buy a sailboat and sail around the world – hence the French, because France still owns a bunch of tropical islands, like Tahiti and Réunion – but the pandemic fucked up my finances so now I’m less confident about being able to afford one big enough for my family to live aboard long-term. So, not sure, really. At this point, I might be thinking in terms of “any reasonably-developed country that’d take me” and continue to live a ‘normal’ urban lifestyle.