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- cross-posted to:
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This is not about me or the others from the flotilla. There are thousands of Palestinians, hundreds of whom are children, who are being held without trial right now, and many of them are most likely being tortured, says Greta Thunberg.
What we have been through is only a small, small part of what Palestinians have experienced. On the walls of our prison cells, we saw bullet holes with bloodstains and messages carved into the walls by Palestinian prisoners who had been there before us.
When I’m about to get off the boat, there are a bunch of police officers waiting for me. They grab me, pull me to the ground, and throw an Israeli flag over me.
Greta Thunberg describes how she is dragged to a paved area fenced in with iron fences. This is a protracted scene that lasts for over six hours, according to Greta, and is confirmed by several participants in the flotilla that Aftonbladet talks to.
It was kind of dystopian. I saw maybe 50 people sitting in a row on their knees with handcuffs and their foreheads against the ground. They dragged me to the opposite side from where the others were sitting, and I had the flag around me the whole time. They hit and kicked me.
They moved me very brutally to a corner that I was turned towards. ‘A special place for a special lady’, they said. And then they had learned ‘Lilla hora’ (Little Wh0re) and ‘Hora Greta’ (Wh0re Greta) in Swedish, which they repeated all the time.
The flag was placed so that it would touch me. When it fluttered and touched me, they shouted ‘Don’t touch the flag’ and kicked me in the side. After a while, my hands were tied with cable ties, very tightly. A bunch of guards lined up to take selfies with me while I was sitting like that.
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For the crime of delivering food. Insanity.
Standford prison experiment if it was a nation
The problem’s that it’ll always be her word vs theirs, so there’s plausible deniability.
Unless they’re dumb enough to post on social media… then it would be interesting.Israel claims the flotilla boats contained no aid so their word has no value.
Going by the Israelis lying record, I’d take the flotilla participants’ word over their any day.
they are such good and righteous jews, writing whore and drawing a penis right next to the star of david.
I’m sure our european, government-funded and therfore independend public broadcasting services will be outraged after they hear that our cute little Greta was tortured in a prison that looks Guantanamo-like, with blood and bullet holes in the cells!
The most just army of the world torturing a young, peaceful lady. An army we support!
This will result in weeks of coverage: Politicians being interviewed, human rights experts, Greta herself, debates on what sanctions should be put on Israel…
Just kidding. They’ll hide it between news about a massacre in Africa and the weather report. And in two days, it will all be forgotten.
deleted by creator
The most just army of the world torturing a young, peaceful lady.
They called her Hamas, so now anything goes.
Remember this the next time you hear about Hamas terrorism.
our government-funded […] public broadcasting services
Not anymore, it isn’t
And in two days, it will all be forgotten.
I mean, yeah unfortunately it probably will, but not because of the above
Sry, meant the european ones. I’ll fix it.
A bunch of guards lined up to take selfies with me while I was sitting like that
Really says a lot about the IDF and Israel that they’re always so excited to document the horrible things they do. They’re taking pictures so they can show other people. They think other Israelis - their friends and family - will be excited to see pictures of someone being treated horribly. Reminds me of Rachel Corrie and how they found her murder so funny they’d make pancakes with her face on it. What kind of person celebrates murder like that, and what kind of society allows such public celebration of it?
She’s a non-violent protestor. Why do they take so much joy in being violent to her?
Jews are hated in all nations(middle east, arabs, russia etc) through all times for reasons
The IDF loves recording themselves committing war crimes, and posting them on telegram.
A sick society that promotes cruelty starting even with their children.
"What we have been through is only a small, small part of what Palestinians have experienced. "
Say what you will of Greta, but her ability to remain humble is truly admirable.
She is tough as nails.
Honestly want her to be the Secretary General of the UN. Someone needs to push our international government bodies to be more assertive when dealing with human rights.
She’ll get there. There’s still tempering to be done that comes with more experience and age which benefits and strengthens a political position.
I look forward to it.
I put zero weight in age. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Age can be a bad thing when older generations got us here.
You’re also completely ignoring politics experience, Which is a real world requirement in order to actually get shit done. (Let’s not even talk about emotional maturity and making decisions purely on emotion instead of rationale)
If you are not mature enough to learn how to work well with others then you’re not going to get anything done because you require the contributions, help and cooperation of people you may disagree with in order to move your agenda forward. Especially on a world stage.
I’m not talking about old ass people in their 70s here. I’m talking about people 30-60. Who should be the ones in office in my opinion.
Older and younger than that and effectiveness seems to drop off pretty quickly.
No I didnt. Experienced and morally wrong just means they know but don’t care. And you want to talk maturity. A mature person wouldn’t play around with others lives so casually. 18 and right about human rights and equality, is no different than 100 and also right. But young and wrong just means that individual needs guidance and wisdom. A 100/80/60/40 year old and wrong. When we know particular things. We know universal Healthcare is the only reasonable way to keep your population healthy but we don’t because the wealthy political officials don’t care. Universal child care. Renewable energy. Income inequality. On and on. The older generations have proven they don’t care.
Can’t wait to see you let your household be ran by a toddler if age means nothing to you.
You might think that’s an extreme example, but it highlights the same problem. Until you are fully mature (20-25) you tend to lack in areas that mature humans are capable. That’s the bar, that’s where the floor starts. Some people get there earlier than others. Some people get there later than others.
After that point comes tempering and experience. When your decisions can affect millions of other people, it’s expected that you have the experience, maturity and temperament to make good rational decisions without being overtaken by your emotions.
Younger people are more likely to be overtaken by their emotions and make irrational decisions. Maturity and experience is an expectation.
You’re not going to make a 15-year a UN secretary, or even a 22 year old, it doesn’t mean this person can’t start working their way there and gaining experience with that in mind.
Lol when a toddler says 2+2=4 I say good job that is correct. But when a middle age man (I’m guessing) jumps on a comment thread and keeps trying to tell me 2+2=5, I call them out more strongly. I would 100% trust a 15 year old over current leadership. At least the 15 year old can hide behind not knowing and can be moved by the plees of the disenfranchised. António Guterres is old enough and powerful enough to lift millions of people up but he doesn’t… Why not? It’s because he’s been brought up in a system that directly benefiting him over others. And yes I 100% would vote younger individuals to be the head. Doesn’t mean they can’t still be advised by people that know the ends and out of the old ways.
Age can be bad thing when people making decisions are old enough that they won’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Climate policy being a prime example.
Age can also be a bad thing when people making decisions aren’t mature enough to make a decision rationally instead of emotionally.
This swings both ways. Older people can be less effective at making decisions and younger people can also be less effective at making decisions. For different reasons.
There is a nice sweet spot in the middle from 30-60 where people tend to be pretty good at making decisions while also bridging generational and cultural gaps.
This. They honestly don’t care until birth rates declines and they realize there’s not going to be enough poor people around to keep the pyramid scheme going just ~20 more years.
Age can be a bad thing when older generations got us here
What exactly does that mean?
Older generations created the problem. Expecting them to fix the society they built is a fools errand. Even the most progressive older generations aren’t willing to emancipate all of humanity.
Yeah she is. She’s hella brave.
If they do this to a person they know the world is watching and will hear from, think of how much worse it is for the untold nameless gazans taken hostage by Israel.
This is exactly the message messing with Greta was meant to convey. Look what we did and nobody will punish us for it. We will do much worse to you and nobody will care. They are behaving like 1930’s Nazis. Untouchable and unaccountable.
Regardless of what you think about Palestinians, it’s trivial to see that the Israelis are bad guys in this conflict.
Usually, the world is shades of gray, like with Palestinians, so it’s sort of a relief when you can just point to somebody and say, “Well, those guys are clearly the bad guys, and anybody who supports their actions is also bad.”
Unfortunately, all the Israel bots need to do is say “Hamas” and suddenly everyone thinks Israel is a victim.
Bad people can also be victims. They are not mutually exclusive ideas. In fact, it’s quite likely that bad people are disproportionately victims. They do something horrible to somebody else, and those people do something back. Sometimes, it’s simple justice or comeuppance, and other times, it’s escalating violence between two groups of detestable people.
Hurt people hurt people.
Israel adopted the victim mentality a long time ago. Yes, they were victims of the Holocaust and yes, the world had treated them like shit for thousands of years.
The thing is that they adopted their victimhood unequivocally and then became like the spoiled child who knows how to manipulate their ‘parents’ to get what they want. And it’s worked.
There was a time when Israel at least tried to act like a nation of people who wanted to grow, but since Netanyahu and his right-wing alliances took power Israel has become no better than Hamas – using genocidal violence to lead.
There’s plenty of Jews out there who saw what Israel would have to do in order to reach their goal of being a Jewish state from the beginning and wanted nothing to do with it. Plenty of Holocaust survivors at the time were very explicitly against the taking of land from a pre-existing population, and understood that to make it a Jewish state you’d need to remove the people there… somehow.
Some Rabbis have even made the argument that even attempting to form Israel in the first place is heretical.
Anti-zionist Jews have been a thing for as long as Zionism has existed.
Plenty of Holocaust survivors at the time were very explicitly against the taking of land from a pre-existing population, and understood that to make it a Jewish state you’d need to remove the people there… somehow.
Do you have an example in mind? Enough people survived that I had assumed this, but then again plenty ended up in Israel as well.
The religious arguments against were definitely a thing, and it took quite a bit of propaganda to get the Sephardis to care either way, since most of the drama was in Europe.
the world had treated them like shit for thousands of years.
More like just Europe. Pre-Roman Jewish history reads pretty similarly to the history of their neighbors. In the Muslim world some stuff happened, but the religions actually agree on a lot, and I’d guess the other various minorities got it worse. In Christendom they were kind of the only group to punch down at, so it got really bad. The Roman period is complicated, and I’m not sure how much is even recorded about the more far flung diasporas.
We already have human rights reports about it . You don’t have to imagine
Even then, I assume it’s like the last holocaust and it’s even worse than the reports.
Yep, we almost always find out the worst shit many years after it happened. And I’m pretty sure the absolutely worst stuff just never comes out.
Israelis are sick fucks. Their country is the Nazi Germany of our time. How ironic. Their ancestors are likely spinning in their graves.
Their ancestors are the ones who kicked out the Palestinians in 1948…
I feel that isn’t going to be true in a few years when the US is finished transitioning into full authoritarianism. I know it’s hard to imagine but it can always get worse.
Funny that Israel just demolished Palestine’s nation and “found peace” while Trump was being blamed for Greta’s boating incident because he hates her and “windmills”. This world is full of corrupt old men. I just want them all to die with their regimes.
I have to say I’ve been on fence about her in the past but she is willing to put herself in there to bring attention to the issue. Having said that if she goes back they will kill her. She isn’t dealing with decent human beings. She is dealing with the type of people who poisons people in ‘showers’ and makes those they let live shovel the bodies in to furnaces. Of course they have a word for people who express that reality. It used to mean something but their repeated misuse of it have made it meaningless.
if she goes back they will kill her.
That would be a stupid move, even for them. Then again, they * have* become more brazen.
So the real question would be: what would her government do?
Don’t think they wont. They fear no repercussions. Her government would send a strongly worded letter.
Nothing would happen, unfortunately. She would do more good staying alive and continuing to raise awareness that way.
I know she wants to stay humble and keep the focus on Palestinian suffering, but it’s important everyone on the flotilla share their experience at the hands of the Israelis.
Every person needs to return to their home country to speak on the depravity of the Israelis and their treatment of foreign nationals to highlight their cruelty and the horrors they inflict upon the population that’s 100% under their control and every whim, who the world has ignored for decades. Of the children held in those same cells deprived of food, water, bedding and often subjected to sexual abuse by both male and female guards.
I believe so too. Greta probably also extra fears being seen as an attention grabber because so many Israeli bot accounts are accusing her of doing it for personal fame and calling it a selfie cruise.
This article is a perfect way of her starting off by making everyone aware that this is happening far worse to Palestinians while also spreading the awareness and I’m glad they finally published it.
And yet she’s braver and more courageous than any Israeli will ever be.
The day after the flotilla was captured, brave Israeli refuseniks tried to break the blockade on foot and even make it a few meters in.
The guy’s name is Itamar Greenberg: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2025/03/i-couldnt-wear-a-uniform-that-symbolizes-killing-and-oppression-israeli-activist-who-refuses-to-serve-in-the-israeli-army/said
Readind that article makes me… I don’t know. I’m not ‘mad’, I’m fucking restless. First, the torture, sure. We knew the current* Israeli government is monstrous. (*I don’t know about all the previous ones, I’m not versed in Israeli history.) But the response from the Swedish embassy?
And, after all that, what’s the response of the world? Similar to the Swedish government response as shown here. Evasive, absolutely unwilling to stand up to the monsters. Being monsters themselves by proxy.
I feel like I must act, but know not what to do. I’m restless. I feel like our world is stuck in some kind of non-Newtonian liquid made of Capital, Hunger for Power and Gutlessness. I feel like I want to round up all those monsters, ship them on an island and make sure there’s no way out - have fun amongst yourselves, monsters. I know this isn’t realist. I know not what to do. Calling my minister here in Canada doesn’t do shit - our government is as gutless as all others. Standing in the street hasn’t done much either, nor participating in event in support of Gaza and the wish to put an end to the massacre and torture of a whole people.
‘I have no mouth, and I must scream’
They’ve been like that from the start pretty much. They assasinated Folke Bernadotte 1948. Why? Because he was a skilled diplomat who made real progress in the Israel - arab conflict.
Folke Bernadotte, who helped saved thousands of jews from concentration camps.
TIL RIP Folke Bernadotte
Spreading awareness, or donating to content creators and journalists who do so is a great way to help. Politicians only respond to public opinion so public opinion must be changed first.
And know that Greta only underwent a fraction of what Palestinians do in these torture camps.
Politicians only respond to public opinion so public opinion must be changed first.
And the response from politicians is slooow a fuck. We can’t even get Kamala Harris to admit that Israel was committing genocide. And when Gavin Newsome was asked about AIPAC, he started glitching. I mention these 2 because they are prominent figures in the Democratic party.
Why are certain countries so obsessed with flags?
pathetic.
The world would be a much better place if we took the concept of countries and removed the borders. Then we can start getting over the whole US and THEM thing, which isn’t helping us to move on from our petty ideologies and prioritise advancing us as whole planet.
I’m sure that the concept of “us” and “them” outdates the concept of countries.
If we got rid of countries then the people over that hill or across that river would become “them”.
Yep. It’s fair to say countries are in the way, but it’s not the whole game.
Right, but then rich people can no longer exploit other regions if everyone is considered equal! Think about the shareholders for a bit :/ (I’m sarcastic, in case it is not clear :D)
The main problem here is that people flocking to positions of power are often the ones that do it for the wrong reasons. Until that part is sorted out, we will keep having leaders that will enforce things that are best for them and their closest ones. Some form of anarcho-communism would probably help this, but the current globalisation effort will make it very hard to implement. The best thing we can do as individuals is to just improve our social circle, and try to rely on as many local things as possible.
To this day, individuals are making their own fake borders when they can’t seem to get their own borders created
But… Open borders?!?
*Clutches pearls *
This is an admirable goal but we are very, very far from it becoming a reality for a whole host of reasons.
So what? We should just settle for the status quo then?
Obviously not, but maybe we should focus on more tangible goals at the moment like stopping an active genocide, stabilizing American politics, and quelling the billionaire problem at the moment.
I expect eating the rich will solve all of the above :)
we can start getting over the whole US and THEM thing
Unfortunately the “us and them thing” is an evolved aspect of human society. It’s not possible for humans to get past it because it’s literally in our DNA.
The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt discusses this in detail.
Maybe? I feel like there’s at least been pockets of history where we successfully resist it, so I have hope. Like, where I live right now, seriously hating any reasonably self-contained group is taboo and the exception.
If we really can’t overcome it somehow, the rest of history is going to be at least as hellish as the past, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
If we really can’t overcome it somehow, the rest of history is going to be at least as hellish as the past, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
You understand then.
Nationalism and the flagshagging that comes along with it have always been baffling things to me.
It’s a replacement for morals
Not sure if you’re serious, but flags (aka standards) were THE most important part of the crusades 1.0 (my mom’s surname comes from a standard-bearer’s heroics not letting their flag touch the ground in a battle)
Not saying it means fuck all, but you’re witnessing a watered down version of the same in this fisher price version of the crusades.
Standards weren’t exactly flags in the modern sense, which IIRC started in the early modern era, but it’s the same idea.
