This is only true of somebody does something about us.
The Nazis were inspired by what went on in America. Genocide, concentration camps, segregation, forced sterilization, taking the children, etc
America is already worse than Russia, you guys just don’t remember recent history
70k dead in Gaza, half of them children. Russia didn’t do this.
Is it so hard to hold in your mind the concept that multiple countries may be evil?
Or are you just saying one is worse than the other? If so, why even? They both need dismantling.
What happens to a MFer with mental illness. This guy.
Knowing the truth is mental illness. Right.
2 things
- It says Nazi Germany not Russia
- Don’t imply I’m American, ew
I mean this is what happens when you send your religious fanatics and criminals to colonize new lands. 🤷🏻♀️
The difference is, we have millions armed and against this admin. So when the world decides to stop the US. They will have millions inside the country willing to join the united earth against the country. They can’t take guns away, and if they try to just take them from Dems then you won’t have to invade. The civil war will begin and the world will hopefully join in the fight
me when im complicit
Sure. Just like how we all villainise Rome, the British empire, the Khanates, and other violent militaristic cultures of conquest… and, of course, no one would look back fondly on governments that enacted policies of hate and murdered their citizens and others… Oh, wait… /s
we absolutely do villainize the british empire wtf are you talking about. it’s only really second to the us fascist empire.
A certain subset of people do. There are still lots of Brits who not only don’t hate the idea of empire but think it should come back. There are even people in the former British colonies that romanticise that history. There are people now, and will continue to be, who look at the history of empires, conquerors, and tyrants, and cheer for the ‘great men of history.’ Maybe one day that might change, but it’s going to be a while, if ever.
that doesn’t make the us empire any less villainous
The point was not that empire is not villainous, simply that the ‘history will not be kind to’ sentiment is mostly pointless ressentiment. All it does is mollify the slave with the pretense they will get their reward after death and the oppressor will get their punishment. The empire does not care. The ones that care about history will write the history they want the world to remember after their death and live the life of the wealthy conqueror until they do.
i get what you mean now, you are right.
The rest of the uk think those people are knuckle dragging cunts.
Testing. Hannibal Directive.
So I can’t see most of the comments here on hexbear, but In going to assume you have a bunch of libs agreeing that yes Trump has made it worse, a few comrades pointing out the US has always been like this, and then a shitton of dumbass lemmitors spouting ahistorical red-scare arguments in response to those comrades.
I should make a “liberal thoughtkiller” flowchart. Everything they do is predetermined
Even got one blaming nazis invading Poland because they wanted to distract from government spending killing the German economy…
Cool, can we fast forward to the hangings pls?
Another thing we can accuse the US and their UK poodles of it’s only hanging a handful of nazis for show in their Nurenberg showtrials. (if that’s what you’re referring to)
They gave the vast majority of nazis all the help they needed escaping to S-America, Canada, etc…
Or simply forgave them and left them in high positions.Operation Paperclip brought over 1600 Germans including many Nazi scientists and leadership into the US to provide engineering for the US military and politically engineer the 50 year fascist project starting with Dulles and solidifying total control under W Bush. The CIA which was created by merging the OSS with literal Nazi’s had the leader of the agency George Bush Sr, become president.
I’m tired of hearing about this as if it was the only one. It’s what they call a limited hangout.
Everyone knows it and it’s somewhat understandable from a pragmatic standpoint.
US/UK took effort to let them surrender to their western friends since the Russians would give the their deserved reward.
After which plenty somehow vanished.
And almost nobody knows about the ratlines, set up by the west to let all the other nazis escape.
Among them mass murderers like Klaus Barbie, Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, Croatian Dictator Ante Pavelić, and Léon Degrelle.
And masses of low rank war criminals, the worst of the worst, including 1000’s of SS division Galizien from Ukraine.
Shipped to the UK and then got relocated with new names in Canada.
Their offspring still very active and with the same despicable ideology.
The Hunka incident is not a coincidence.I don’t think it is understandable to bring Nazi leadership into your country and allow them to develop a military 🤷♀️
not for us ‘normal’ people.
But the Paperclip were useful to them, that’s why it can be seen as an understandable excuse.
The rest certainly not.
Won’t matter.
I rather see a Cyberpunk2077 future happening
its been known to be worse than germany for hundreds of years, hitler based his concentration camps and the holocaust in part on the american treatment of indigenous people.
they killed tens of millions of people with muskets, 6 shooters, repeaters, and disease, on horses, and trains. all the while enslaving an entire race of human beings in the process. which arguably was the main reason they could enrich and modernize their country in the first place. free labour.
america has always ALWAYS been the bad guy. they just had really really good “marketing” and military strength for the last century.
what is happening now are the final flailings of a dying empire. it will stretch itself thin, bankrupt itself, crash the dollar, fuck the global economy, and be picked apart by oligarchs until mentioning the word “union” gets you shot on the spot, not by a robot police officer, but your fellow “patriot” between spoon fulls of soylent green.
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy, and an imminant one at that. whether we agree or not, like it or not, its coming, its here. and thats just the way it has to be, apparantly.
any social progress may have to wait a few decades, maybe even centuries depending on the outcome of WW3. if at all.
but, EVENTUALLY, if we survive it. there will be a social revolution, and hopefully that one creates a better life for those alive to live it. likely still just a handfull will enjoy everything life has to offer and more. but maybe, just maybe the masses will take back whats theirs and live fully again.
Fuckin’ hell, I feel like a kid in 2226 reading this on some kind of wall plaque after it was discovered in the cautionary history archives that survived the great fires. I think it struck me when I read this line:
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy
It’s just a very elegant way to describe the btshit craziness of living in “interesting times.”
Oh and hey future people who have presumably learned to be excellent to one another: put me in the plaque! It’s a thing we used to do on this old internet here with screenshots, you see.
Considering the country was founded on the greatest genocide history has ever seen and chattel slavery, this should have been the case the whole time.
Can read. Not upset. We probably kill more innocent s since the fall of the third riech then they have.
Not to mention interventions they started back in the middle of the XIX century in central america, that were driven by the manifest destiny ideas. So this is nothing new and that has been happening for more than 100 years.
Give me any nazi atrocity and I can provide an example of the US doing it, and probably far worse and on a larger scale.
Killing 6 million jewish people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States - 4+ million Native Americans killed in a time when overall populations where much lower. If that number were scaled to the 20th century population it would be an order of magnitude higher.
Why do you only mention the Jewish people and not the Roma, the homosexual, the transgender, the socialist, the communist or the many other groups targeted? Far more than 6 million were targets of genocide by the Nazis.
Killed an entire continent of peoples and enslaved millions of people from another one to make agricultural commodities.
Also during ww2 the US refused a ship of jews fleeing nazi germany and made them return.
They also won’t make anti-semitism illegal cause freeze peach, so US cops often protect white supremacist groups during protests from righteously outraged ppl. US cops also often recruit directly from those groups, and use them to carry out illegal things actions they don’t want to be responsible for. There isn’t enough space here to even get into the US’s anti-semitic past.
At once, in a assembly way or specifically targeting Jewish people?
Plus it’s not like they were cool with those trying to escape Germany. And chance would have sided with Germany if Britain had fallen.
The US has done many horrible things, but that’s an awful list to go by. It mixes US involvement in the Philippines and the nightmare that was with “Israel killed someone and it’s likely the US was aware”, NATO involvement in Bosnia, and the US usage of radio and press releases to influence world opinion in its favor.
Specific incidents in Bosnia? Certainly. But on the face of it, the US joining with other nations to intervene in an ethnically driven civil war isn’t an attrocity. The US being aware of an Israeli operation isn’t a US attrocity. Propaganda isn’t an attrocity.
Hell, one entry literally seemed to be “American soldiers reported a South Korean war crime through appropriate channels, and this didn’t change US foreign policy”Mixing actual attrocities in with the benign or unrelated things just dilutes the actual attrocities, particularly when the preamble says to play up to emotional outrage.
Hate to be that guy, but as much as the US sucks it’s no Nazi Germany. Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million. Which again, the Nazis killed in the Soviet Union alone.
Making these sorts of wild statements only invites scrutiny over the numbers and creates an argument you will lose. It’s far more effective to list more recent atrocities and zoom in on individual cases and motivations. Let’s also not understate the tremendous losses the Soviet Union took.
A huge amount of deaths are directly caused by US sanctions in numerous countries.
You should count thoseSimply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims.
In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that’s just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That’s the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past.
Fully agreed that comparing “kill counts” is dehumanizing. Hence why I commented saying you shouldn’t invite these comparisons in the first place, because people will find an argument and you’ll get lost in the weeds.
The US nearly completely wiped out the indigenous people who lived there
When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. Native Americans were subjected to many different forms of violence, all with the intention of destroying the community. In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. There were several wars, and violence was encouraged; for example, European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma. In the 20th century, civil rights violations were common, and discrimination continues to this day.
Multiple millions of people were captured in Africa and sold as slaves as well
They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot.
Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
Surely we’d attribute most of those murders to the British Empire and the other colonisers at the time, no? The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Again, not disputing that all of this is fucking horrible, but it’s not somehow “worse” than the sum of crimes committed by Nazi Germany (as far as comparing atrocities goes that is, which feels like something one shouldn’t compare too much. Each one is one too many after all).
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people’s history of the US.
Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I’ll add it to my list
Of course it was colonial policy. But it doesn’t stand to reason to primarily attribute those to the US as an entity, rather than the British, French or Spanish empires who instituted these policies and were responsible for them.
That’s not to say the US doesn’t have its own share in this history, but attributing the entire genocide to the US makes little sense since they didn’t exist for the majority of it.
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Germany didn’t write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did.
To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn’t quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time.
I think it’s not unreasonable to think that Nazi Germany was worse than the US. Given time, it wouldn’t have even been a contest, absolutely true.
You’re also very right in criticising the US for not properly owning up to their atrocities. Germany has indeed done much better on that front.
Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide.
You’re wrong. It’s not a contest. If they had been allowed to ‘let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away’ like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America.
The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America
It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars.
Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples.
- Vietnam: 1.5M killed
- Laos: 300k
- Iraq: 1M
- Indonesia: 500k-1M
- Korea: 500k
- Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings
And I haven’t even started on operation condor and latin america yet.
The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination.
The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia.
Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to:
This popped up in my feed today:
And US America is still going, the worst is yet to come
Not disputing that, but Nazi Germany trumps that in numbers easily. If we take the upper estimates of these you get 5.5 million people (only half of the liberally estimated total of 12 million).
Again, I’m not disputing how horrible this all is, but it’s just not the same. This is decades of US warfare compared to just 6-9 years of Nazi Germany. And the comparison gets even worse considering world population at the time was much lower than it is now.
I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way.
Because that’s what Dessalines did, and I literally mentioned they probably shouldn’t do that.
Maybe it’s because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner?
Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I’d argue America has committed more genocides.
Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million
Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy.
Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I’m not saying there’s no comparison, I’m just saying there’s no comparison, yet.
You should know that these figures are fairly disputed. This specific study comes from a Venezuelan think-tank specifically set up to advocate for sanction relief. It also has some findings that go against previously established literature (such as stating that UN sanctions are less harmful than US sanctions, whereas previous studies found the opposite (eg https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/215035/1/cesifo1_wp8033.pdf). There’s also debate as to how much of this is causation and how much is correlation. Plus there’s no analysis regarding improved life expectancy after sanction relief compared to a scenario where no sanctions were instated in the first place.
Also, be aware that historically these arguments were used for example to seek sanction relief for Apartheid South-Africa.
According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn’t even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death.
I’ve never felt more helpless. What do I do?
Arm yourself first and foremost. Get to know your neighbors. Work in your communities for change. Watch what you post and where. They will come after people posting anti regime on social media.
Join a mass worker organization, like the Party for Socialism and Liberation. Having people dedicated to activism, trained in doing so, with organizational structure in place, is the most effective way for the working classes to unify and wield their collective strength.
Build communities with like minded people in real life. Join groups like unions and keep an eye out for local politics.
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