Petty tyrants can be just as personally vicious as larger capitalists, and both live via theft of labor time.

if i had a dollar for every time a small business owner took offense because my autism made them feel like i was an asshole to them and then fired me while trying to take the software that i developed for them, it would be able to buy myself a couple beers and think about how i could avoid them. :p

It probably has something to do with how those are the only two immediate options most of the time and people can’t just implement ideals out of thin air

The petite bourgeoisie is the most reactionary class that drives fascism. As capitalism decays, small business owners are the most threatened into becoming proletarian, so they adopt the most reactionary positions advocating for open terror against the working classes.

Western hyper individualism is brain poison.

Because OP is out of touch with reality.

I had one get a $12M bonus for the three stores they owned while telling me they can’t afford a raise or full time because things are tight for everyone

Then left the check on the desk after doing an e-deposit or whatever - then leaving for the day at 12:30

Did you win? Sounds like you probably did if he got so about it. On the other hand, just because one of them throws a hissy fit at the drop of a hat or gets physically threatening doesn’t mean they failed to get their way.

I knew and had to spend a lot of time with a former small business owner who lost her ~100 employee business and ended up living the worst nightmare of any capitalist: being a wage worker. Having to exist on the other side of the class divide and get exploited rather than do the exploitation went a long way in humbling her I think, though it happened a decade before I met her. But she still remained one of the most petulant people, totally unable to admit to having any fault or being wrong in any way and was always just so childish for the most asinine reasons. (Though to be fair I’ve also known life long proles with similar issues).

Small business owners really do put the “petty” in the term petty bourgeoisie.

Coops are fine. They aren’t a challenge to capital, and by communism will be phased out in favor of full collectivization, but for people trying to make things better for themselves it’s one of the better methods of organization within capitalism.

I don’t personally think direct workplace democracy is the important factor, but instead that the class in power is the working class, and that society in general is comprehensively democratic. Workplace democracy is cool but the lack of it isn’t the worst of capitalism.

Co-ops are generally good and worth supporting. They are undeniably a better alternative within capitalism to the standard business ownership model and they can be great for raising worker’s class consciousness. That said, the ones you might see in the imperial core or any capitalist nation are not a threat to capitalism itself (if they were, they wouldn’t be allowed to exist). This is in part because they are always going to be fighting an uphill battle in a competitive labor market where all other businesses get to exploit their labor, forcing co-ops to operate at a disadvantage. Even as they are at a disadvantage especially compared to large corporations whose scale alone give them a massive advantage over all small businesses, co-ops in the imperial core still benefit from the primary contradiction of our age which is imperialism, the extraction of super-profits from exploited nations. Which means you will still have co-ops that are reactionary when it comes to dismantling capitalist hegemony. In other words, the workers of a co-op may jointly own their own business and the portion of the means of production within the purview of that business, but ultimately the means of production include all the economic inputs from the rest of the world, like the minerals that co-op must buy from mines in exploited countries or the basic food ingredients grown on land in the global south. This puts the material interests of even the most egalitarian first world co-ops at odds with communism. It has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread that small business owners occupy a spot in the social hierarchy where they are squeezed from both above and below in terms of their material interests, well this is also true of co-ops but perhaps doubly so.

In short, yes worker co-ops are good, and if you can support them over other businesses it’s a good idea to do so. If you are fortunate enough to work in one, great. But don’t expect them to have more revolutionary potential than workers unionizing. You will be disappointed if you think that worker co-ops are the vehicle towards socialism that some of their biggest proponents often like to say they are.

They cost money to open and run. Best case is a group of somewhat wealthy friends pool their money to start a co-op. Idk how lending policies are towards worker co-ops.

I worked in a metal fab shop and ppl talked about unionizing. I brought up a co-op or other employee owned models but they said 1 machine alone can easily be $500,000+ for a shitty used one and none of us could get that kind of money.

And they’re absolutely the worst. Not only are they constantly in a panicked state at the looming threat of being thrown back into the labor pool, all the tepid labor reforms the big companies sort of have to abide by don’t apply to them.

DO NOT SMASH THE FAILED CAPITALISTS, THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR EVEN IF IT’S CONSENTUAL

But they are living off of the value produced by their workers, assuming it’s not just literally the owner working. Also, most small business owners I’ve worked really scummy and shady. A lot of people go into business because they are literally unemployable. Personality disorder, criminal past etc. You are much more likely to be a victim of wage theft.

For the love of god read capital

USAmericans worship small business and small business owners

I agree with OP and frankly if you think liberals don’t support fascist small business owners, or worse you also support them, then I sure hope you don’t think of yourself as a leftist. But I have to admit I did raise an eyebrow at the choice of character used to express the sentiment.

Of course it is a fascist, it is an USAmerican after all

All businesses exploit their workers labor and keep the surplus value. If they didn’t exploit their workers it would be a workers cooperative.

Removed by mod

You should only shop at a locally owned co-op that sources it’s products from local farm co-ops. And in the very likely event that those aren’t available where you live, you should starve to death on principle.