Divorcing analysis of authority from analysis of class always results in these blanket condemnations of authority. This is self-defeating, though, and results in equating the majority taking power from the capitalists with capitalists oppressing the majority.
Only state violence is actual violence! Kulaks enslaving peasants and starving them to the point that their life expectancy is 28 years of age is just basic economics! /s
Everywhere I turn i see “that’s just the way things are” medieval serf-brainsd fatalism
One thing I learned from my grandpa: “the Kulaks deserved it!”
Based as hell.
They unironically believe this.
I’m just as much a socialist as you, but all of my positions conveniently line up with the US State Department’s and the only through line is violently enforcing white supremacy. Stand back while I use the word “tankie”
I’d honestly respect people more if they just admitted to being social democrats or liberals instead of trying to be this halfway house thing of socialism/communism with liberal democratic characteristics. Very common here on Lemmy.
As far as I can tell, the tankies are the ones whose ideas line up most closely with real world communist organisations. I can’t think of any serious communist parties that are anti-China, anti-USSR, pro-NATO, and so on.
It’s Baby’s First Thought Terminating Cliche. I can’t hear it without remembering that perennial tweet about someone’s grandfather being the most steadfast anticommunist they know because he’s illiterate and communist propaganda could never reach him.
MLM/Maoist parties like the Naxalites tend to be anti-China and still “serious” in that they wage protracted people’s war, organize in real life, etc, but they are generally pro-USSR (Stalin era) and anti-NATO. I disagree with them theoretically but I will acknowledge that some of them have seen some degree of success when the material conditions of the countries they operate in are more agrarian (and as a result have more similarities with China’s revolution, the closer they are the greater the degree of success).
ML parties generally agree with what you said, ie pro-USSR, pro-PRC, anti-NATO.
“I’m a socialist, that’s why I believe in milquetoast reformism for western capitalist nations but for radical regime change in socialist China”
And is this “existing socialist state” with us in the room right now?
Cuba, vietnam, laos, the state of Kerala in India. Pfft typical liberal
Yes, Cuba is a good example
I’m all for lifting the restrictions on Cuba. I don’t understand why they are still in place. Presumably they were put there because of the cold war, but we are all buddies with Russia now, why are we still mad at Cuba?
but we are all buddies with Russia now
Russia’s capitalist as it gets now. No one is pretending they’re still in any way socialist or even leftist. The US oligarchy loves them because Russia is now ideologically aligned with them. Cuba’s actually still socialist.
Also interesting how capitalist Russia is more tyrannical and war happy than the USSR ever was eh? While having a lower productive output than the USSR.
I don’t understand why they are still in place
The US is explicit about this: “every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government”
I don’t believe the USA is buddies with Russia, though, they have opposing geopolitical interests. The fact that the USA is pulling out of Ukraine now is not because they’re buddies with Russia, but because Ukraine is a broken toy now that the EU has fully antagonized Russia as a consequence of the invasion and has subserved itself to NATO and agreed to the 5% military expenditure (mostly to buy weapons from the USA military-industrial complex)
The US Empire isn’t “buddies” with the Russian Federation, there’s realpolitik at play when NATO is losing a proxy war against it. Cuba is still demonized for the same reason all socialism is, it represents an alternative and risks spreading to surrounding countries, which hurts the US Empire’s super-profits.
The US doesn’t blockade the entirety of Russia or China despite the Communist/Socialist political standing of either country, it does however do it to Cuba. Cuba does nothing to the US agenda that isn’t also done by Russia or China, other than the latter two have economic scale.
Russia is no longer socialist, but both now and back then it was sanctioned like crazy. The US Empire physically cannot blockade it like they can Cuba. Cuba also does focus on exporting revolution, at least decades ago, such as in South Africa. As for China, it’s because the US Empire is dependent on it.
China’s rapidly improving productive forces and cheap labor ended up being an irresistable match for US financial capital, even though the CPC maintained full sovereignty. This is in stark contrast to how the global north traditionally acts imperialistically, because it relies on financial and millitant dominance of the global south. This is why there is a “love/hate” relationship between the US Empire and PRC, the US wants more freedom for capital movement while the CPC is maintaining dominance.
Fast-forward to today, and the benefits of the CPC’s gamble are paying off. The US Empire is de-industrializing, while China is a productive super-power. The CPC has managed to maintain full control, and while there are neoliberals in China pushing for more liberalization now, the path to exerting more socialization is also open, and the economy is still socialist. It is the job of the CPC to continue building up the productive forces, while gradually winning back more of the benefits the working class enjoyed under the previous era, developing to higher and higher stages of socialism.
In doing this, China has presented itself to the global south as an alternative to the unequal exchange the global north does with the global south, which is accelerating the development of the global south. China is taking a more indirect method of undermining global imperialism than, say, the USSR, but its been remarkably effective at uplifting the global working classes, especially in China but also in the global south.
At the risk of being all “this is just like video game”, what Dengism did is basically the equivalent of some scene where the protagonist has to slam a little bit of The Serum the villain made in order to survive the final confrontation: enough to gain their powers and immunity, but not enough to lose their mind.
Yep, Marxists understand markets better than liberals do, and as such they can be used in certain comditions to tremendous effect. Social safety nets did indeed suffer as well, it wasn’t a magic bullet, but by and large the gamble paid off.
Cuba, PRC, Vietnam, DPRK, Laos, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. are all examples of socialism (or proto-socialism in Venezuela and Nicaragua’s case) in action.
Til, socialism is when means of production are firmly in the hands of dynasty of autocratic rulers. Silly me, thinking that workers should be in charge.
It isn’t, and I never said that it was. What exactly are you vagueposting about?
2·4 hours agoWe all know it’s DPRK. “Dynasty” is 99% of the time the DPRK.
Yep, just wanted them to spell out their claims exactly. It’s much easier to debunk clear claims than vagueposting.
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That also isn’t what’s going on in the DPRK, so I fail to see how that’s relevant.
Do the citizens all live in comparable luxury as Kim Jong Un then?
Living conditions vary. Cities like Pyongyang have better living conditions than rural areas, as an example. However, socialism doesn’t mean equal living conditions for all, especially in a poor country like the DPRK. What is true is that public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, the working class in control of the state, and production and distribution are focused on satisfying the needs of the people primarily.
Where do you get you information from?
I think it’s amazing the Amish give their people the chance to explore the outer world with Rumspringa so they have a choice if that’s the life they want or not.
They’re also allowed to speak of their experiences freely too.
Various sources. One I have my eye on recently is Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the Theory and History of Socialist Governance.
Hey! Don’t knock over the strongman! He’s brittle
Are the uyghurs secretly huge capitalists or something? I’m capable of disliking both US genocides and Chinese genocides at the same time
You also going to start ranting about white genocide in South Africa?
One is a genocide while the other was created by the Mighty Wurlitzer, which almost everyone fell for yet again. Previously.
No, China is not commiting genocide. Uyghurs aren’t capitalists, but the west did fund and arm seperatist groups in Xinjiang to undermine the development of the Belt and Road Initiative. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.
I also recommend reading the UN report and China’s response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.
Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn’t going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this. Even with all of the real complexities, though, nothing material measures up to claims of genocide.
Interesting, I’m not sure I fully believe what either side is saying but it does sound believable that what’s going on is being exaggerated.
Hey, cool that you’re questioning it tbh, thanks for considering the possibility that western mass media lies about the “Uyghur genocide” in opposite to how they lie about the Palestinian genocide
Feel free to dig in yourself, serious claims require serious investigation.
You should learn to spell “Uyghur” before trying to do your concern trolling.
You are capable of disliking both real genocides (Gaza) and western manufactured genocide disinformation (Xinjiang)?
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It doesn’t have to be Russian backed. In fact there are hundreds of millions of people with no connection to Russia with legitimate grievances that justify hating the West.
being anti-western is good actually
For anti-democratic regimes, sure.
so being anti-western is good for the west?
The US has never been a democracy and has overthrown more democratically elected governments than any currently existing country on this planet, get better material loser
Good, cope some more
Ok McCarthy
Anti Western propaganda? Yes. Russian-backed? Unfortunately no, I wish I got paid for this
I’ll DM you a link to George Soros’s private Discord server
Yes, I know we shouldn’t use Discord for this, but you try convincing him to change.
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If you don’t hate the US and our lackeys then you’re either evil or stupid
No, kinda the opposite. I hate neoliberalism, neocolonialism, Eurocentrism and American exceptionalism, but I love the people and want them to enjoy their lives without unemployment, without houselessnes, without food insecurity, without exploitation and without wars
The hate is more than justified, unless you are a racist bigot who devalues the lives of non-westerners.
Sounds like your blaming people that fuck horses for the invention of the automobile
Care to explain what you mean?
