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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 3 days ago

Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 3 days ago
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  • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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    13 hours ago

    This is just Russian propaganda.

    Here in reality, no, Ukraine isn’t run by neo Nazis. Are some people in the army Nazis? Yes, of course…people who like to kill other people are generally terrible people.

    It’s amazing that, for whatever reason, people give such a pass to Russia. Russia is a fascist dictatorship that absolutely ethnically cleanses groups all over the country and it’s satellites.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      This post is three days old, this thread is buried deep, and the only people still here are ones who you’re not going to convince because they know you don’t know what you’re talking about. It is you who are repeating propaganda, as if we haven’t heard it all a thousand times before.

      We know all the same things you know and a whole lot of things you don’t, because we’ve actually investigated. If you have a commitment to the truth and the luxury of time, you can, too. Previously.

      • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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        8 hours ago

        I know exactly what I’m talking about. I’m more skeptical than all these zero sum pro Russians combined.

        If you read what I wrote instead of babbling what you wanted to react to…you’d not mice I’m not pro Ukraine…I’m just aware that Russia is a dictatorship that’s also full of Nazis.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          8 hours ago

          Russia is no more a dictatorship than the US or Ukraine are. They’re all oligarchies, run by the consent of the bourgeoisie. [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

          Putin actually is popular. Russians have good reason to like him: he kicked the Western capitalist neoliberal shock therapy plunderers out of the country, whom Yeltsin let in. It’s still a capitalist shithole, but at least it’s their shithole and not a neocolonized state anymore.

          Russia isn’t “full” of Nazis, though it certainly does have some fascists. I don’t know where you get that from. It’s not like you provide any evidence for your assertions.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      No, it’s reality that you’re denying. Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis, as was reported by the west, which you still disagree with as “Russian propaganda.” From @[email protected]

      • BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
      • Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
      • The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
      • The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
      • WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
      • Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
      • The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
      • openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
      • Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
      • Consortium News, 2022: Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev
      • Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
      • History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

      Russia isn’t ethnically cleansing people, Kiev is.

      • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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        8 hours ago

        You don’t need to flood the zone…everybody is aware there’s Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, like there’s Neo-Nazis in Russia, and everywhere else.

        It’s absolutely Russian propaganda to present them as the entirely of Ukraine, and ignore that Russia is also  full of Nazis. Russia is also a repressive fascistic dictatorship.

        Don’t know what cooked your brain that you need to hyper focus on Ukraine’s problems and ignore Russia’s:

        https://www.sova-center.ru/en/xenophobia/reports-analyses/2025/02/d47102/ Independent Russian monitoring group SOVA documents trends in ideologically motivated violence, victim counts, and state responses, highlighting a resurgence of street attacks and online glorification of violence.

        https://jacobin.com/2024/12/neo-nazis-russia-ukraine-violence/ Long-form analysis linking wartime propaganda and online clout culture to renewed visibility of violent neo‑Nazi groups and their recruitment tactics.

        https://russianlife.com/the-russia-file/neo-nazis-return-to-russian-streets/ Magazine piece synthesizing reporting on street violence, Telegram channels, and SOVA statistics showing rising incidents in 2024.

        https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA3450-1.html Policy research on how Kremlin narratives about “denazification” are used strategically; useful for understanding state propaganda and external messaging.

        https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/2/4/503446.pdf Official OSCE materials and delegations’ statements addressing neo‑Nazi glorification and related regional concerns.

        https://carnegie-mec.org/russia-eurasia/research Scholarly analyses on Russian nationalism, state‑far‑right interactions, and implications.

        https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/11/how-the-traumas-of-2004-blinded-putin?lang=en Contextual piece linking historical trauma narratives to contemporary securitized rhetoric that can empower extremist frames.

        https://www.brookings.edu/regions/europe-eurasia/russia/ Policy briefs and expert commentary on Russian domestic politics, including far‑right trends and security implications.

        https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/12/06/neo-nazi-street-attacks-are-making-a-comeback-in-russia-experts-link-it-to-2000s-nostalgia-internet-clout-culture-and-the-war Investigative reporting on viral attack videos, Telegram ecosystems, and cultural drivers behind renewed violence.

        https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-in-the-news/isds-steven-rai-on-the-resurgence-of-the-neo-nazi-accelerationist-group-the-base/ Expert commentary on transnational neo‑Nazi networks, recruitment, and links to conflict zones.

        https://www.dagens.com/war/neo-nazi-terror-group-with-ties-to-russia-recruits-for-attacks-in-ukraine News coverage of recruitment and alleged operational ties between extremist cells and Russian interests.

        https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jarees2001/2002/31/2002_31_57////_article Academic study tracing ideological roots, party actors, and social drivers of neo‑Nazi movements in Russia.

        https://academic.oup.com/book/45836/chapter/400752581 Scholarly chapter on neo‑Nazi networks in Russian prisons and their social dynamics.

        https://www.academia.edu/41133663/From_Red_to_Black_The_rise_of_Neo_Nazism_in_Russia_in_the_90 Historical overview useful for tracing evolution from 1990s skinhead subculture to modern groups.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/30/putin-says-ukraine-goals-will-be-achieved-as-he-repeats-neo-nazi-claims Reporting on official rhetoric that invokes “neo‑Nazi” narratives as justification for policy and war.

        No idea what radicalized you…for some people it’s because they’re tankies…for others it’s because they’re insane anti Americans. At the end of the day you’ve got tunnel vision and blinders.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          The leadership in Kiev is neo-Nazi, it isn’t just a small group. Ukrainian citizens are suffering under the Banderite regime. Russia has neo-Nazis too, but they aren’t infesting the leadership, who are mostly nationalists supported by the majority of people for kicking out foreign imperialists that were plundering the country in the 90s. What radicalized me against western imperialism is living in a dying capitalist empire. I consume plenty of media from the west, there’s no tunnel vision nor blinders on. Being a communist and being anti-US Empire isn’t “insane.”

          • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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            6 hours ago

            You heard it here…dictator Putin: better than “Kiev”.

            It’s completely insane be to be so communist that you stampede past the fact that Russia was corrupted by capitalist oligarchs…and end up in favour an imperialist dictator. What a trip.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              38 minutes ago

              I don’t miss that Russia is ruled by nationalists, I quite openly said that they are. Kiev is run by neo-Nazis and is a puppet of western imperialists. Russia isn’t imperialist, it lacks the finance capital necessary to be so, it’s western countries that are imperialist and using Ukraine like they do Israel, to secure their interests in the region. It isn’t at all “insane” to have a grounded and consistent understanding.

              You have this incredibly simplistic “good vs evil” thing going on here, and it’s clouding your judgement entirely.

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