such as like this:
The concept of gender identity is said to be real as an experience, (like how theists claim to see god [a claim basically]), but scientifically under-defined, weakly grounded biologically, and sometimes treated as more fixed or explanatory than current evidence justifies.
I’m not saying that I agree with right wing transphobia, and I condemn transphobia, but sometimes, do you ever think that actually, maybe transphobia is a good thing?
That’s how your post reads
Trans people’s existence isn’t a political position or a logical puzzle.
All you have know is:
people who deserve respect = people who deserve respect.
The project of inventing your own gender theory based on Bio 101 is pretty myopic. As though people don’t count as people until you’ve fixed the taxonomy in your mind. You don’t have to read Judith Butler, but have the self awareness that dismissing the literature before engaging with it is not the product of critical thought.
One way this question could be interpreted and restated is: Trans people don’t have blanket immunity against critique, right?
If that is the legitimate heart of your question then: No. They do not. No one does.
Let’s say some puppy kicker happens to be trans. I publically and vocally oppose their puppy kicking. They respond by labeling me transphobic. That’s nothing more than a weak response from a bad person using their minority status as a cover for their shitty behavior/beliefs.
That said, and I cannot stress this enough; that is not how your question reads and the above is an overly charitable interpretation.
If that is not the legitimate heart of your question then all I can do is refer you to the bible: https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en
Something you haven’t mentioned is talking about the way medical treatment is practiced, access to gender affirming care, etc.
As you notice from your votes at -9, this is a radioactive topic.
Only if you support free access to medical transition, and promotion of self chosen identities, you might escape accusations of transphobia. Even asking for the scientific foundations this rests on, can get you in trouble quickly.
Mentioning what detransitioners say is risky as well. They are worth listening to.
There are real issues surrounding this topic, but they are hard to address because of the stark political divide. Trans issues are used as a political shibboleth and not as a psychological-medical issue.
Being transgender is not an ideology, dude.
i didn’t even use that word
No, but you are attempting to critique it as if it was.
Idk, I’m just not interested in policing other people’s genders.
Your analogy is more telling than you think it is, and argues rather strongly against the idea that right wing transphobia has worthwhile points.
Yes, the (non) existence of God Almighty is both philosophically and scientifically unfalsifiable. But we don’t as societies use this to assert that every last person who proclaims a faith is telling an intentional lie about belonging to a religion
Gender is not like whether or not God exists, but is instead like what church you attend.
What “beliefs” do I have by virtue of being trans, and in what way do they need to be critiqued? This “question” is vague in a very “what can I get away with saying?” kind of way.
The entire discussion is exasperating. It’s a free world, people should do what they want.
never saw it online it’s heavily censored, that’s what makes it more appealing to others
There is another way to take this.
People should do what they want, even when they want to create fake morals that they themselves don’t believe in and then use them to gang up and harass others minding their own business.
Are you “minding your own business”? Are you really…?
I want to make sure I got the question right, because I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking.
Are you saying that you should be able to disagree about the science behind gender identity because you feel that the current definitions and standards were created by politics and not science and research?
Now I have a headache.
“Transgender ideology” = trans people have the right to exist as they are.
So no.
No. I think transgender people get more than their fair share of a shit show and deserve safe spaces free from any lines in the sand of others. Ultimately no one has a right to project their beliefs onto others.
You have a right to all information sources, a right to skepticism, a right to error, and the right to protest in all nonviolent forms aka the right to offend others. Your rights never include infringing upon the rights of any other.
The idea that others are subject to collective critique is nonsense conjured by religious backwardness. I came from such an upbringing too. That is the toxic nonsense you need to try to purge. The peer pressure, negative feedback loop, and shaming only leads to problems. It is not real ethics or morality. It is a tool to get you to outsource your morality and ethics to a dubious source, and ultimately to have nothing more than a fear of getting caught. It is a system that fails at basic game theory; a negative feedback loop is incapable of producing positive outcomes. You cannot amplify from unity gain or attenuation. So ask yourself, is this a negative feedback loop. If the answer is yes, and you have nothing positive to amplify, then all you are doing is death by a thousand cuts and bleeding someone further. Be a positive force in the world and maybe just maybe you will have positive outcomes too.
I don’t see a question here. There might have been one but some words got chopped out.
The complete title is available on PieFed, which is where the user is from and has a higher character limit:
I’m not saying that I agree with right- or center-wing views, and I do condemn transphobia. However, do you think there should be a distinction between critiquing beliefs of transgender people and their identity, and engaging in transphobia?
I have tried to get my point across before, but was labeled a transphobe. I have no issue with trans people and wish them all the best in their pursuit of happiness. I understand the issue they face: Society put them in one of two gender categories, and they don’t feel that’s where they belong. That’s a valid issue in my eyes.
I just don’t really see the current approach fixing this. Its like we saw that there was an issue with racism, but instead of abolishing it, we added more categories like “race-fluid”.
In my eyes, the root issue is the concept of gender identities, and how big a role they play in our day to day lifes. Why does the way people address me (sir/madam, he/she) depend on my gender identity? Why does every form I fill out ask for my gender identity? Why are so many things separated by gender?
I’d like to see a post-gender society, where we don’t need pronouns. Where there is no concept of gender identity, because everyone is just themselves.
Instead of staying inside the box, adding classification after classification, I think we should leave the box and stop assigning a gender identity to every one of us.
That would be great, but it still doesn’t address dysphoria, which is actually about sex, not gender, despite the name. We use “gender” to refer both to the societal roles that you (and I) want to abolish and to the sex characteristics that a person wants their body to have.
While I agree that the enforcement of social norms that leads to being transgender is the ultimate root cause, the current approach of self identification has the exact same positive outcome as getting rid of gender norms without needing to undo all of human history.
No more identity politics
This is my main issue with modern gender theory, honestly. From natural reasoning, either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept. Sure, I can respect how other people identify, but if gender is simply a social construct, then I don’t understand how someone could be transgender.
So for someone to feel gender dysphoria, I believe that there should be some form of biological reality; even if we haven’t pinned it down yet. Maybe something to do with what chromosomes or hormones affect the mind compared to the body, or something else causing it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not really my business anyway so I don’t care that much, as long as the person in question is comfortable and healthy, regardless of my understanding.
From natural reasoning,
You mean from fallacy
either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept.
False dichotomy, it could be a third thing. Also the idea that “socially constructed” things are somehow unworthy of consideration, or irrelevant is not true. Consider some things that we know are “man-made”: sovereignty, laws, borders, language, authority, religion, democracy, human-rights, and class. Think those things are “irrelevant”?
you mean from fallacy
I mean as opposed to ideological reasoning. Natural reasoning is a conclusion that I can come up without any form of ideology or worldview.
Explain the “third thing?” It would really help considering my whole comment is about how I cannot rationalise a third position.
If gender is man-made, I don’t see what positive purpose it serves.
Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own. Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life, is something that should be questioned. Children know little, struggle to find their identity, are easily influenced, and often make stupid decisions. Societal roles help children orient and find their way around the world. How can we expect a child to understand something as complex as gender fully to make an informed decision?
Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.
Trans issues are mental health issues. They have been politicized by making it about identity and attaching it to the political struggle of gay and bi people. No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.
Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.
Helping people live a healthy and fulfilling life should be the goal. If someone transitioning is the only thing that helps someone, then by all means go for it.
Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own.
Do you have statistics to back this up?
Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life
Do puberty blockers have this effect?
Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.
Any more statistics?
No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.
Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.
I would agree that this is something that we should be concerned about. I think a recent example was the Cass report in the UK.
