such as like this:

The concept of gender identity is said to be real as an experience, (like how theists claim to see god [a claim basically]), but scientifically under-defined, weakly grounded biologically, and sometimes treated as more fixed or explanatory than current evidence justifies.

  • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
    6·
    3 days ago

    This is my main issue with modern gender theory, honestly. From natural reasoning, either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept. Sure, I can respect how other people identify, but if gender is simply a social construct, then I don’t understand how someone could be transgender.

    So for someone to feel gender dysphoria, I believe that there should be some form of biological reality; even if we haven’t pinned it down yet. Maybe something to do with what chromosomes or hormones affect the mind compared to the body, or something else causing it ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

    Not really my business anyway so I don’t care that much, as long as the person in question is comfortable and healthy, regardless of my understanding.

    • yesman@lemmy.world
      2·
      3 days ago

      From natural reasoning,

      You mean from fallacy

      either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept.

      False dichotomy, it could be a third thing. Also the idea that “socially constructed” things are somehow unworthy of consideration, or irrelevant is not true. Consider some things that we know are “man-made”: sovereignty, laws, borders, language, authority, religion, democracy, human-rights, and class. Think those things are “irrelevant”?

      • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        you mean from fallacy

        I mean as opposed to ideological reasoning. Natural reasoning is a conclusion that I can come up without any form of ideology or worldview.

        Explain the “third thing?” It would really help considering my whole comment is about how I cannot rationalise a third position.

        If gender is man-made, I don’t see what positive purpose it serves.

    • Limerance@piefed.socialEnglish
      21·
      2 days ago

      Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own. Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life, is something that should be questioned. Children know little, struggle to find their identity, are easily influenced, and often make stupid decisions. Societal roles help children orient and find their way around the world. How can we expect a child to understand something as complex as gender fully to make an informed decision?

      Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.

      Trans issues are mental health issues. They have been politicized by making it about identity and attaching it to the political struggle of gay and bi people. No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.

      Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.

      Helping people live a healthy and fulfilling life should be the goal. If someone transitioning is the only thing that helps someone, then by all means go for it.

      • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own.

        Do you have statistics to back this up?

        Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life

        Do puberty blockers have this effect?

        Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.

        Any more statistics?

        No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.

        Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.

        I would agree that this is something that we should be concerned about. I think a recent example was the Cass report in the UK.

        • Limerance@piefed.socialEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2147/AHMT.S135432

          Evidence from the 10 available

          prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence

          (reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates

          that for ~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC,

          the GD recedes with puberty

          Puberty blockers are a strong change in your life and a severe intrusion into the natural development of a body. Instead of going through puberty like most other kids, the child will be behind in their physical development by years. That can lead to social and psychological problems of course.

          There’s generally not much quality research into the long term effects, as you can read repeatedly in [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker#Research).

          As for transitioning not resolving the psychological issues, those choosing to detransition are the best proof. https://segm.org/first_large_study_of_detransitioners

          The participants’ decision to detransition was most often tied to the realization that their gender dysphoria was related to other issues (70%), health concerns (62%), and the fact that transition did not alleviate their dysphoria (50%). Interestingly, over 4 in 10 (43%) participants endorsed a change in political views as a reason for detransition.

          Most participants reported significant difficulties finding the help that they needed during their detransition process from medical, mental health, or LGBT communities. Only 13% of the respondents received help from LGBT organizations when detransitioning, compared to 51% when transitioning. A number of participants reported negative reactions from LGBT and medical communities, and 51% of the sample expressed that they did not feel supported during their detransition.

          Most detransitioners reported ongoing needs related to managing comorbid mental health conditions (65%), finding alternatives to medical transition (65%), and coping with regret (60%). Half of the sample reported the need for medical information on stopping or changing hormone regimens. A great majority of participants also expressed the need to hear about others’ detransition experiences (87%) and getting in contact with other detransitioners (76%). The study highlights the urgency of providing appropriate medical, psychological, legal, and social support to detransitioners.

          I haven’t bothered to look for data concerning the long term mental health of those who transition. I only have lots of anecdotes from conversations with trans folk over the years. That’s of course not representative.

          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36151828/

          Our findings coincide with existing research, which indicates TG individuals do experience a higher prevalence of mental health disorders than that of the general population or cisgender individuals

          • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            That’s very enlightening and thought-provoking material. The detransition figures about people being abandoned is disturbing. Thank you for this.

            As for the mental health issues- some could argue that the Gender Dysphoria causes these issues, and that these issues are side effects of Gender Dysphoria. So I’m not too sure if existing mental health issues invalidates gender dysphoria.

            • Limerance@piefed.socialEnglish
              2·
              2 days ago

              It’s not about invalidation. It’s about the case of lost and mentally unwell people finding out about transgender, then find a welcoming community, that accepts them. They get presented a simple explanation on why they don’t feel like themselves and a path through that. If other people (like the parents) shed doubt on this, they can be called transphobic and face social consequences. So if someone grabs onto this, they get treatment in the form of hormone pills pretty much immediately under informed consent.

              Differential diagnosis for mental health issues is never easy. One mental health issue can easily cause others. The major difference is that gender and being trans can become a big part of one’s identity. You don’t get that to that extent with other disorders.

              Especially the overlap with autism is interesting and not obviouS. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-psychiatry/article/crossing-boundaries-unraveling-the-link-between-gender-dysphoria-and-autism/DB33E9208EF32A46C4AE83D9B673F498

              Preliminary findings indicate that individuals with ASD may experience higher rates of gender dysphoria compared to the general population. Factors such as social communication difficulties, rigid thinking patterns, and heightened sensitivity to social norms appear to influence the experience of gender identity. Qualitative data reveal that many individuals navigate significant challenges in accessing appropriate support and validation, often feeling marginalized within both the autistic and gender-diverse communities.

              I invite you to seek out interviews with detransitioners and people who used to work in gender affirming care, if you want to learn about Trans issues from someone besides activists.

              That said trans people are real and some benefit from transitioning. The very charged political climate around this health care issue, creates problems for trans and non trans folk alike.

              • Flax@feddit.ukEnglish
                2·
                1 day ago

                I am autistic and used to be led into believing I was non binary by a friend group. Thankfully I am out of that group. Ironically, they were the most intolerant people I knew (I wouldn’t have cared if they civilly disagreed with me on some issues, but they wouldn’t.) Meanwhile the evangelical church my family had belonged to, that I went to when I was younger, welcomed me back in with open arms despite civilly disagreeing with my identity and view on gender at the time.