While I agree that we have a duty to avoid unethical brands whenever possible, there’s just no way to escape them all. I live in a poor country and I there’s a lot of “bad stuff” I have to buy just because it’s what I can affford at the moment.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
Fully agreed. While it is morally positive to avoid especially unethical companies, ultimately it’s not possible in all cases. As long as you try to be moral in your day to day actions and you on some level push for things to be better, you’re not morally culpable for the failings of the current system.
This is true… but with some corporations it’s just a case of “fuck you in particular.”
Avoiding every company that does something unethical is impossible. Imo, avoiding giving money directly to those unethical practices is what we should strive for.
Ie, Nestle is notorious for the way it acquires and sells bottled water, using legal loopholes to leave communities without drinkable water, and adding sodium to their water to keep you thirsty and drink more. So don’t buy their water. Assuming enough people do so, the company will, inevitably, stop selling water and focus on products that are selling. Does Nestle as a whole deserve to fuck off? I mean, sure, but, at the very least, we can pressure companies to only engage with the practices that we consider passable.
I avoid Nestle, because fuck their water shit, I don’t trust them to source cocoa reasonably either, and they are nowhere near having a monopoly on good chocolate, so they’re perhaps a bad example. But we can at least push companies around, because ultimately, the only thing they give a shot about is our money.
Sure for sure. And I’m tired of people treating it like it’s all or nothing, OR that it is stupid to boycott! I have my reasons why I refuse to purchase from this brand specifically and not others. We all only have so much energy (and money, mental resources etc) to be able to do so much. Let’s not shit on others for trying, or others who don’t want to. Maybe their energy is spent on other injustices and boycotts. Or just trying to survive. I dont like that they steal water from drought stricken communities here in America, and what they did in Africa. I have the mental resources and the luxury to boycott them so I do. You don’t so you don’t.
The only jerks are the ones who literally don’t care because it has nothing to do with them.
I avoid Nestlé as much as I can, I mostly… I just buy a coffee crisp once or twice a year. It’s one of my favorites and I have not found an alternative I like as much/better.
Nestle isn’t exactly making bank off me, that’s enough.
Yup and as far as I’m really concerned enough to speak up to anyone, it’s if they buy their bottled water. Since like, that’s supporting them stealing water from drought stricken fellow Americans. Most people will be willing to try a different bottled water brand. And I think that’s a really good bare minimum boycott that is accessible, easy, and could spread.
I have had my own insulated steel water bottle for a few years now. I have bought a couple water bottles since, but it only happens when I forget it and it’s a hot day. I still try to avoid Nestlé when that happens.
Nestlé chocolates are bad too, though. They use palm oil in all of it. However, most chocolate companies do. And it isn’t limited to chocolates. Oreos, which are vegan, use palm oil as well, which is why some vegans and vegetarians boycott oreos. Unfortunately there aren’t many alternatives to go to for this issue. The only viable solution for this one is to “stop eating chocolates/etc” rather than finding alternate brands and companies. Unfortunately this one is rather difficult because palm oil is one of those ingredients that has like 50 different names because companies KNOW that palm oil is one of those issues people feel strongly about and try to avoid. So every company will call it something else, or something very, very vague. Avoiding palm oil is like trying to avoid corn or soy.
Soy is quite allergenic, are not there notices about that on your packaging?
There are, but it might not be called so and at the bottom they might write “(may) contain: soy”
I’m talking about pre-made whatever. Salad dressings, sauces, etc. They all have corn or soy in them, sometimes both. It’s hard to avoid it entirely. People with a soy allergy probably have to get specialty brands and/or go to specialty shops since food in North America is so corporate. Many of the food safety laws are a joke. And Canada is stricter than USA. In USA food safety is the whole clown show when compared with the EU.
That’s when you have to ask yourself if you’re ready for war. I’ve been stalked by drug dealers that want me to keep my mouth shut. It’s all the same business minded bs mainstream or street. A heartless man is a heartless man no matter what.
What
Street life brahh. 😭. You don’t want it and no one needs it.
Hopefully you can get out of it someday.
Thanks, It’s getting better… Slowly… but I think I have PTSD now.
Yo man, I think I have PTSD as well, from all the shit me and my wife have been through. You’re not alone in this shit, our society is a people grinding machine. We need to be strong and enjoy the little good things everyday. Wish you the best.
Thanks, I appreciate this!
I feel you… I’m from Brazil and it is very hard to escape from unethical brands here!
I live in a poor country and I there’s a lot of “bad stuff” I have to buy just because it’s what I can affford at the moment.
So you’re Japanese? 261% government gross debt compared to GDP…
There can be. Just not under Milton Friedman/Chicago School capitalism, or the neoliberal globalist shoggoth it spawned.
Whether aforementioned eldritch economics are an inevitable stage or not, the million dollar question (whatta bargain!) is whether that stage constitutes the current system’s death-throes. I’d love to know, myself!
I keep waiting for the final shudder but it keeps going on and on?
If you consider that it is a self sustaining organism in its own right, it won’t die until a number of its organs have failed. Until then it’ll scape on, consuming itself (and us) to satisfy it’s immediate need to survive.
Fuck Nestlé
Butfuck Nestlé
Don’t get me wrong, fuck nestle, but this whole movement that’s grown singling them out is so superficial it really frustrates me.
All of the companies of nestle’s size are up to the exact same shit. They all exploit their employees, destroy the planet, and invest millions if not billions in union busting and lobbying.
I get that it’s easier just to focus on one company, but if you want one thing to focus on, make it capitalism, the system that enables, hell, encourages, this shit, rather than individual products of it.
Even if the movement somehow managed to destroy nestle (never going to happen), destroying one company achieves nothing. Tear the whole thing down.The Nestle boycott wasn’t founded due to exploitation of employees, unions, etc. They’re shitty and do all that stuff (and far more). But the boycott was specifically founded (in the 1970s) due to their decision to relentlessly market baby formula to vulnerable mothers, particularly in less developed countries, often in times of famine or hardship. They knowingly caused health problems in infants (who of course then grew into adults with health problems), probably caused many infant deaths, and pushed families into poverty (with all the consequences of that), for profit. 50 years later we’re still dealing with the consequences of their immoral marketing (which has never really stopped, they just change the messaging in order to comply with relevant laws, which are too weak).
I’d boycott them just for that, but they’re also the corporation who in both U.S. and European hearings has argued that water isn’t a human right and pushed to privatise community resources, at a time when water scarcity is one of the main long-term threats to many countries, including the U.S. and many European countries.
Other companies do this stuff too, but generally speaking they’ve done it for less time and are less brazen about it.
I am well aware of all of that information, and if you think others are less brazen, you’ve simply not been paying attention. Either way, you seem to have missed the point. Boycott them. But don’t think that’ll affect any change, because it won’t.
Agreed. Fuck billionaires, fuck capitalism.
While I understand your perspective, you failed to mention their actions which specifically targeted new mothers in developing countries with unethical actions that resulted in the slow deaths of infants.
This is why I boycott Nestlé. Not poor treatment of employees, nor a disregard for the environment.
Nestlé implemented a plan that caused babies to die a slow and painful death while their mothers could only watch helplessly.
Fuck Nestlé.
Since you’ve both missed the point entirely in favour of the same example (that is absolutely not unique to nestle), I’ll just copy paste my reply:
I am well aware of all of that information, and if you think others are less brazen, you’ve simply not been paying attention. Either way, you seem to have missed the point. Boycott them. But don’t think that’ll affect any change, because it won’t.
My goal was to say what some of their more egregious acts. I would hate for people to forget that Nestlé caused the slow painful death of infants because it was grouped in with general corporate behaviors.
I’m also aware of other atrocities performed by companies; the Banana Massacre by Chaquita (then United Fruit Company), Ford letting their customers burn to death instead of adding an $11 safety feature to the Ford Pinto, Apple using state sanctioned slave labor through Foxconn, etc etc. And when I get the chance, I share those acts of corporate malevolence.
I’m not excusing any of them. I’m just doing what I can to help prevent these acts from being forgotten.
For me, boycotting and / or protesting this behavior is not about changing the collective minds or behaviors of corporations. It’s about not accepting it and expressing personal outrage, even if it is commonplace.
For me, boycotting and / or protesting this behavior is not about changing the collective minds or behaviors of corporations. It’s about not accepting it and expressing personal outrage, even if it is commonplace.
And that right there is the problem, because if you’re not looking to change things, what’s the point? Outrage without action is not only futile, but it’s exactly what those at the top are counting on - for people to waste their time and energy on pointless boycotts that make them feel like they’re helping, while their machine chugs on uninterrupted. It’s a distraction, and it’s working.
Remembering, and reminding others of these atrocities is hollow if you don’t aim to destroy the system that enabled them in the first place (and which will continue to enable them, and others, to continue to do more, worse, atrocities, because capitalism isn’t getting any fucking friendlier or easier going on the working class).
So again - boycott whoever you want it if it makes you feel better, I boycott companies for all sorts of reasons, but don’t delude yourself in to thinking that is going to change anything on any level beyond your own personal feelings, because it won’t.
What actions do you suggest? I am open to suggestions.
Join/create a union. Join/create a Food not Bombs. Actually invest your time reading up on socialism, anarchism, and becoming an anti capitalist in the way that personally suits you best, as well as what suits your community best, instead of expecting others to spoon feed you instructions.
I’m not trying to be an ass but I literally know nothing about you, where you are and what your local community needs, what your able and not to do, how much trouble you’re willing to get in to or how much time and resources you have to spare, and a whole load more variables that mean I couldn’t possibly tell you what to do or how.
Look up solidarity, look up dual power, look up building a community, take your own steps at your own pace.
Or don’t.
All I’m saying is don’t delude yourself (or others) in to thinking a boycott of a single company (or even all of them, but nothing beyond) is having any impact on anyone but you.
Great answer.
I think that we were both confused about what the other was trying to say. What I was hearing from you is “boycotts and protests are pointless and never change anything, so don’t even bother trying” and I think what you were hearing from me was “well, I stopped spending money on this one thing, that aught to fix society.” I do not think that was what either of us were trying to say.
Personally, I find that boycotting is only one step in a process of trying to break away from the influence of corporations. Once a person takes that step to say “I don’t need this.”, they are more inclined to look at other things in their life that they don’t like and find ways to remove them from their lives as well. They start to encourage others to take similar steps and find their own forms of freedom, maybe even get so upset that they start trying to enact reform. But it all starts with the self.
From my person experience, it takes a highly offensive act to get others to look beyond their personal convience and comfort. Hence my sharing the atrocities of Nestlé. It was never about influence a corporate mindset, it was about hoping to influence a persons mindset.
I would enjoy continuing our discussion, if you are up for it, though maybe through DMs or somewhere else more appropriate. For instance, I would be interested in hearing your views on large societies and impact they have on the individual as well as your thoughts on countering personal greed and how it corrupts efforts and movements intended to help others.
Fun fact 1: That is Hayao Miyazaki of Studio Ghibli
Fun Fact 2: KitKat in Japan is made by Nestle, so he probably would be disappointed to find out that his KitKat is made by Nestle
I think all KitKat are made or owned by nestle
KitKat in the US are made by Hershey. Still gross, but not Nestle levels of gross.
@Teeetris @TrenchcoatFullofBats , like 80% of products in the Supermarket.
Not so fun fact:
He’s a bit of a dick.
Meh. He’s a creative type with a high work standard. He’s also pro socialism and sympathetic to workers.
Edit: citation https://walessince1945.wordpress.com/2020/11/11/hayao-miyazaki-the-miners-strike-and-wales/
You can have sound views and still have a shit personality.
Ok, but can we prove he has a shit personality? Besides, wouldn’t you be cross if you’ve seen the world continuously make the wrong decisions.
Yes, he was pretty harsh and rude to those AI guys.
Why the KitKat reference specifically?
Because in most of the world, Nestle makes KitKat
TIL
I was given my alias at 8yo so I was ignorant at the time drinking nesquik everyday.
Fuck nestle.
I don’t hold it against you. You’re a victim in this!!
Didn’t know lemmy was that old.
My alias is about a week old.
Shouldn’t be hard, as almost everything Nestle makes tastes like crap.
Maybe stop eating shampoo then. (= They partly own L’Oréal, and by extension all the L’Oréal brands: Garnier, Maybelline, Vichy, Biotherm, etc.)
To your actual point though: A) that depends on which country you live in, given that their products are manufactured differently in each country/region. B) it does also depend on what brand you’re referring to. I find it highly unlikely you dislike EVERYTHING in the Nestle machine. Hot Pockets? Perrier water? Nerds? Smarties??
I dont think that is true any longer. They had stock at one point in Loreal but it doesn’t seem to be the current case when I tried researching it recently. A LOT of luxury salon hair brands are in the loreal umbrella like redken, biolage, and of course loreal.
Yeah and people act like nestle is just gross junk food. Coffee mate, Starbucks (packaged stuff sold in stores)
That said it was pretty easy for me to quit I only really had to replace a few things myself. Loreal would be way harder
Nestle (as of last year’s financial returns) owns 20% of L’Oreal (L’Oreal details on last share sale, Nestle statement of its relationship with L’Oreal). They reduced their holdings a couple of years ago (down from 23%) but at 20% they’re still one of the more significant L’Oreal shareholders (though not the largest at L’Oreal).
I mean, referring to your second point there’s only cookie crisps (my favourite cereals) and Kit Kat that I really like more than other brands
Kit Kat is unique but it’s not like it’s that good that I can’t choose a different snack bar
Cookie crisps too, I just need to get other brands of cereals, like Kellogg’s! (/s)
I don’t think they sell hot pockets here, and everyone I know thinks m&ms are better than smarties
Ah fuck, Perrier and Smarties are owned by Nestlé? Count me out then 😮💨
Well that’s subjective, but I see your point, there are definitely much higher quality products out there. But if you grew up with some of their products, there is the nostalgia factor, plus if you can’t afford the higher quality products, you are still going to buy nestle products. You could say they have us by the balls.
Definitely.
Obligatory, fuck nestle!
Speaking of which, have the hydrohomies migrated already?
i see no posts, looking from lemmy.world here D: time to start it up?
nvm it doesn’t show any if I put “TopDay” on sortingHit subscribe and wait a few minutes
If any of ya’ll have some KitKat alternatives I’m listening. Currently enjoying Kinder Bueno but am ready for something else.
American Kit Kats are made by the Hershey company and no money goes to Nestlé.
Explanation:
Kit Kat used to be a Rowntree’s product, and Hershey bought the right to make the candy in the U.S. in perpetuity back in 1970. When Nestlé bought Rowtree’s, they had to abide by the contract to license out the Kit Kat for no royalties, because the only condition of the agreement is that Hershey loses the license if the company ever gets sold. And since selling the Kit Kat bar is so valuable, buying Hershey for what it’s currently worth would mean instantly losing a large amount of Hershey’s value, so even when they’ve tried to find a buyer, nobody will buy the company—even Nestlé refused to buy Hershey in 2002.Does Nestlé see profits from the Ferrara distributed products (mainly Crunch bars)?
If you’re in the US, KitKat here is made by Hershey.
But look at Nature Valley “Chocolate Peanut Butter Wafer Bars.” As someone who likes both, they’re not the same - they’re better, as long as you like peanut butter.
What about Canada? Is KitKat made by Nestle here?
If it makes you feel better Hershey’s is also fucking atrocious and the cacao they source is likely also from child labor in Africa.
@Tak @ProvokedGamer
Not just likely - actual survivors of Nestle’s child slavery operation came to the US for help, and the supreme court, including all 3 “liberal” justices, told them to get fucked and that it’s perfectly legal for US companies to use child slave labor as long as it happens outside the US
Looks like it, unfortunately.
They also make Coffee Crisp, which is a shame, as I used to stock up on them whenever I visited.
No man, Coffee Crisp is my go to. I’m gonna have to find a new favourite :(
Those look a lot closer to nutty buddys, which I also love. I haven’t seen the nature valley kind but I’ll keep an eye out for it now.
If you are in the United States, you are giving your money to Hershey for Kit Kat; it is licensed from Nestlé based on a previous deal with the original owner of the brand. I don’t know the exact details of the contract, but it appears that it was a lump sum payment which means no money goes to Nestlé for Kit Kat sales in the US.
Still, Hershey is not much better, and this factoid is irrelevant if you are NOT buying the US version. Similar options include Tim Tam, Double Time, Dido, Trader Joe’s Wafer Cookie, Milka Leo or Choco Wafer, Little Secrets Crispy Wafers, and any number of other generic chocolate wafers. You can also make your own: https://www.inthekitchenwithmatt.com/homemade-kit-kats.
Reese’s has a big enough lineup that maybe you can find something?
That can be difficult in a small town where the only supermarket is supplied exclusively by a wholesaler who has a deal with Nestle. And ordering candy from Amazon will just mean you get melted and/or spoiled chocolate weeks after you order.
It also means using Amazon which is not better than Nestle really
Man, we need cut a lot of things in our lives to stop supporting these assholes. They’re like cancer, they’re everything. Some things I literally just had to give up completely
I miss r/fucknestle
Don’t let your dreams be dreams.
Chew em up n rat em out.
When you’re eating a candy and look at the wrapper and it says “Great chocolate flavor.” You can’t call it chocolate unless it meets certain quality criteria.
“Eat the rich” by finding a candy sold by a different corporation? Focusing on stuff like this is such a pointless distraction from actual issues and solutions.
No, eat these people: https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/NESTLE-S-A-9365334/company/
And then one of these for dessert: https://www.slavefreechocolate.org/ethical-chocolate-companies
The issue is… I think it’s gonna be hard to find a non-Nestle candy.
what? there’s plenty of non-nestlé candy lol.
Or are you only talking about the specific candy you like?
Nono, just joking. I’ve recently been noticing that practically everything I see is Nestlé under a different brand 😂
Nestle owns like 20 candy brands or something so it’s not so simple
