• poVoq@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 hours ago

    You are not going to convince me with more circular logic. A system’s purpose is what the system does. Monopolizing state power is not putting the workers in power, it is the exact opposite.

    And no I am not going to do the research for you. When someone is as ignorant of historical facts as you then I am not going to do the work for you. You are not my boss, even if you claim to represent me as a member of the vanguard party 😏

    • TiredTiger@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 hours ago

      And no I am not going to do the research for you.

      Cowbee brings the receipts, and you don’t. You do understand this is an argument being made in a public forum, and not your DMs, right? I can only assume that your goal is to feel intellectually superior, and not to actually persuade anyone to adopt your point of view.

        • m532@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          49 minutes ago

          So you’re saying, if you declare something to be fake (‘fan-fiction’), and then there’s evidence (‘receipts’) that it’s true, the evidence becomes ‘worthless’?

          Hmmm…

          • poVoq@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            25 minutes ago

            Being critical of sources is paramount in historical research 🤷

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 hours ago

      Monopolizing state power in the hands of the working classes is putting the working classes in power. The state is not outside of class struggle, but within it, and arises from it. None of my logic has been circular.

      As for your strategy, you reveal your utter disdain for actual organizing work when you claim you would be “doing my research for me.” I am openly inviting you to share what you think are good ideas, and instead you insult me. This attitude is aristocratic, the workers are not good enough for your knowledge, they just have to trust whatever it is you say, and if they don’t, they are not worthy.

      I never claimed to be your boss, nor am I a part of a vanguard party, as no party can declare itself as such. If you do org work in real life, I suggest you try to actually engage with those who disagree with you, or else you’ll have an extremely difficult time gaining new members.

      • poVoq@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        2 hours ago

        More ad-hominem as before, great. And no, trying to usurp state power is not activism or praxis, and you are literally THE example of an armchair communist here on Lemmy 😅

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 hours ago

          None of this was ad-hominem. I did not say your claims were wrong because you have an aristocratic viewpoint, I explained your aristocratic attitude and how that impacts potential org-work. Revolution is definitely praxis, and I’m not sure what you mean by “armchair communist,” I organize in real life.

          • poVoq@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            2 hours ago

            Yeah, I have seen the “organizing” marxist-leninists do. At best pointless, often actively harmful and mostly just wanking off on fan-fiction and their personal favourite old white man. And here on Lemmy you are certainly not organizing.

            And kinda rich to claim I have an “aristocratic” attitude, when vanguard parties are literally based on the same argument as monarchism.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 hour ago

              MLs organizing have established numerous socialist states, and have effectively organized anti-imperialist and decolonial movements around the world. I never said what I do on Lemmy is “organizing,” that would be absurd.

              As for vanguards, no, they are based on the idea that each class produces its own intellectuals, and therefore organizing them and bringing the working classes up theoretically and uniting in an all-sided political struggle is the way to establish socialism. Monarchism is entirely different, and was based on divine right with no accountability.

              • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 hour ago

                Taking over state power by raising a militia is not organizing. Even Castro famously agreed with that.

                Sorry but more circular logic is not gonna cut it. If a group of people no matter their original class decide that they are better suited to rule than others and ursurp power then they declare themselves monarchs and certainly do not represent the working class.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 hour ago

                  Revolution requires organizing, revolution is the establishment of proletarian power. None of my logic has been circular, and what you describe has not happened in socialist states. The working classes run socialist states, and parties have never declared themselves a ruling class, nor have they been one de facto.