Especially as a human can normally consent to death but a pet can’t

  • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    Much of it comes from Christian theology.

    Suicide has long been considered one of, if not the, worst possible sins in Christianity. At least in the Catholic tradition, sins can be forgiven by confessing your sins to a priest and having them absolved. But you can’t do this with suicide. Per Christian theology, even a murderer or child molester can some day repent, beg forgiveness, and be forgiven of their sins. They won’t be absolved from the earthly consequences of their actions, but they’ll be forgiven in the next life. That is a core message of Christianity - no actions are truly irredeemable as long as you still draw breath.

    But with suicide, this isn’t possible. You can’t confess your sins after you’re dead, and suicide means that your last act on Earth will be a mortal sin. I suppose you could maybe do confession along with assisted suicide. Maybe you have a priest on hand, swallow the poison, and then immediately confess your sin. But most religious scholars would likely argue that doesn’t work. Your contrition has to be genuine for it to count.

    Anyway, pardon the digression. But this really is the root of it. Even in modern Western societies. Even among people who aren’t themselves active Christians. Even among those who’ve never stepped inside a church. Secular Western society is still heavily influenced by Christian philosophy. A strong aversion to suicide in any form is a part of this. For most Christians, voluntarily signing up for euthanasia is the easiest direct path to eternal damnation that one can achieve. The only quicker more direct way would be a murder-suicide. We’ve never had that same worry with animals. Christian theology doesn’t assign souls to animals. And even if it did, they would have no moral blame for us choosing to put them down.

  • timestatic@feddit.org
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    4 hours ago

    I mean there a countries where a person can die by volition for example in switzerland, so if you have a disease and suffer a lot you can let yourself be euthanised. Things get messy because even the option can make it so people could gaslight each other into getting euthanized to get inheritance quicker and all sort of that nasty shit. And I guess animals can’t really spell out if they want to die or not.

    When it comes to deciding for people who can’t decide for themselves, in germany you can allow somebody else before you fall in coma to decide about stuff for you regarding health so they can ask the doctors to turn the machine of keeping you alive.

    I guess its also a strict taboo for doctors with the vow to protect lives. But there’s been a push for it in some parts of the world. There are also stings in history where people with mental illness were regarded as “not worthy of living” in nazi germany for example and basically killed. So thats one reason for example it also remains a taboo with many liberal countries rethinking on the (consentual) euthanasia for those suffering and having the legit wish to die.

    In Germany where I’m from you’re legally allowed to be prescribed medication that ends your life but you have to administer it to yourself. There also the difference of passive and active euthanasia. Active is where doctors can administer it to you with consent. Passive is what I described for Germany. It should really be allowed more commonly in the world tho. The passive one sucks for people who are paralyzed and can’t administer it to themselves because anyone else that does it will only do so illegally

    Here a map from 2022.

  • HubertManne@piefed.social
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    4 hours ago

    No idea. Its kinda crazy because they will do hospice where you allow them to die and give painkillers to mitigate the torture but won’t just end it. My mom had a stroke and they would not give her an overdose of barbituates but would give her some so her dehydration death was theoretically not as painful as it might otherwise be for whatever she could feel in her kinda coma condition. Took a week or more. They say 3 days without water but it takes longer than that.

  • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    because animals aren’t sentient. they also have far shorter life spans.

    also pragmatically, we are not willing to spend as much or invest as much in animal medical care as we do human medical care.

    I’m not going to spend 30K to save my dog/cat, but I sure as would my spouse or child.

    • GiantChickDicks@lemmy.ml
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      3 hours ago

      Most well cared for dogs and cats are euthanized when they are at the natural end of their lifespans and no longer have a good quality of life. Bodies grow old and die. It doesn’t matter how much money we invest in medical care, human or animal. At best it can buy a few more (often painful) months or years.

      Euthanasia is most often chosen when life is no longer enjoyable for the patient. I think the moral question the OP is posing is why we offer this kind relief to companion animals and not have this option for ourselves.

    • remon@ani.social
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      3 hours ago

      because animals aren’t sentient.

      That very much depends on your definition of Sentience. The most basic one is just “the ability to sense and feel”, which means a lot more things than humans are sentient.

      they also have far shorter life spans.

      Some sharks and turtles want to have a word with you.

  • Fichtre@programming.dev
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    8 hours ago

    TLDR : yes but (Wished it was for the greater good only, ie. respect and help people decide how they end their lives but capitalism will use it with its own vision and how it values human lives -not much-)

    In addition to the usual religion + human life being supposedly more valuable than pets /many other animal, there’s the “utility” angle.

    Someone here already mentioned the “is grandma Suzanne still valuable as an asset to society ? Aaaww she had a good life then. 'K bye” and it’s actually pretty huge : in a world where governments are cutting more and more social welfare budget (well, when there was one to begin with at least), promoting the right to die must include the stories of people that don’t benefit from proper care and who are way more susceptible to go with the legal way out of euthanasia. And this number, with the budget cuts, older population, whatever incapacitating fuckery that might happen will grow quickly if not properly safeguarded (and I dont trust anyone in power right now to safeguard it).

    I used to be completely in favour of euthanasia as a proper, respectful ending for people in pain : we had this story in France with Vincent Humbert that encapsulated all the reasons why it should be legal.

    And then, capitalism kept happening and this idea of euthanasia, as beautiful as it is if properly set, increasingly became in my mind a tool to stir the masses towards global productivity/efficiency, with a few happy yet sobbing endings.

    So yeah, I’m still hesitant on this matter, and I wished it could be implemented to relieve the many persons who just want a little more respect for how they wish to die. But at the same time, if nothing more is done to increase social welfare budgets, welp. We might end up with the suicide booths from Futurama 😅

    • HubertManne@piefed.social
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      4 hours ago

      I get you but its not like its either or. If anything statistics about euthanasia would at least be an argument that social programs are insufficient. Sorta the ultimate weigh. If all places allowed it, it would likely be a pretty obvious metric for quality of life. You could not get it to zero but it would be obvious what places are not even trying. Come to think of it its obvious now why many politicians do not want to see that right be a thing.

  • LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml
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    8 hours ago

    There’s more profit to be made off a sick person slowly dying over years than a one-time procedure.
    What the general population thinks rarely matters since our politicians are bought by the owning class.

  • DV8@lemmy.world
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    9 hours ago

    Euthanasia is accepted and has been legal in Belgium for decades. It’s not perfect but clearly better than nothing as it has stopped many people from needlessly suffering or worse, forcing their loved ones to discover their bodies after doing it themselves. (Though it still happens as many, many things aren’t covered or extremely hard)

  • Lantsu@sopuli.xyz
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    13 hours ago

    Religions and doctors “vowing to protect life.” Especially religious doctors “vowing to protect life” even when the life means just pain and suffering that can’t be properly eased with pain meds either, because you know, the dying person might get addicted to the meds. That’s obviously worse.

    In my country, when an elder person is too sick and “ready to be euthanized”, they just stop giving them water and let them dry to death. It can take weeks. They do give some pain medication, but there is no way of knowing what amount is enough. You’d imagine that dying that way is pretty damn painful yet they don’t have a way of communicating that. But if they OD’ed, it would be murder so better let them suffer!

    But also, euthanizing animals is becoming more taboo too. Many pets live in pain, relying in “pet mobility carts” and medications. Antidepressants for cats, epilepsy meds for dogs… Vets prolong the suffering for money, for people who can’t accept facts and do the kind and right thing. Animals have no way of communicating about side-effects from medications. Endless rehoming is thought to be better than letting go.

  • Lets be honest, most humans do not view pets as equals to a human. Valuing our own species over others is just part of our biology. (not saying that I agree with this view)

    If people had the legal responsibility to keep paying thousands or tens of thousands (or potentially more) to keep a pet alive at its senior years, then like… I bet like 50% of pet owners will either become bankrupt or go to jail for animal cruelty.

    Laws are just written with humans prioritized… I mean… humans have healthcare¹, pets do not.

    A human in an emergency situation arriving in a hospital, and they are legally required to give treatment even if the person cannot pay at the time¹, a vet can legally refuse to treat a pet in an emergency until the owner pays (not saying that would refuse, but they could).

    (¹restrictions apply, varies by country)

    One could argue that if euthanasia is legal, then there would be situations of: “Hey, granny is kinda taking too much resouces… maybe we should just pull the life support?” or “Okay my child has cancer and takes up too much of my money, and all this money would be wasted if the treatment fails, I’m gonna talk to the doctor and end this parasite once and for all”

    • Ice@lemmy.zip
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      4 hours ago

      One could argue that if euthanasia is legal, then there would be situations of: “Hey, granny is kinda taking too much resouces… maybe we should just pull the life support?” or “Okay my child has cancer and takes up too much of my money, and all this money would be wasted if the treatment fails, I’m gonna talk to the doctor and end this parasite once and for all”

      Which is exactly why I’m in favour of euthanasia for humans on a moral level (people should be able to decide their own fate) but against it on a societal level (it will likely result in people getting pressured into “choosing” death.)

      The harm of the people who are unable to choose death (a.k.a commit suicide) on their own suffering is a lesser evil compared to people who want to live being pressured into dying (in my view).

  • MalReynolds@slrpnk.net
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    8 hours ago

    I don’t have a good source, but my instinct is that ‘society at large’ in many (probably most) places is at least in majority ‘okay with human euthanasia’, and has been for quite a while. It’s the laws that need to catch up, but don’t due to lack of political will and a vocal minority.

  • muxika@piefed.muxika.org
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    13 hours ago

    At least in the States, I believe it’s for religious and financial reasons. Correct me if I’m wrong, but allowing someone to off themselves could be condemning them to hell. Also, to be cynical, medically assisted “checking out” is the easier, cheaper way out, instead of burning through money in a hospital.

    Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with ending the suffering of a terminal illness. Prolonged suffering is unnecessary, and a person should have the right to go out on their own terms.