You can observe the discarding of a US proxy progress like an infection by watching stories about Ukranian government corruption slowly make their way up the bloodstream of public “opinion”, from small papers up to the new york crimes.
The funniest part is how this was widely reported in mainstream western media before the war started. Now that the US wants to wind the war down, all of a sudden omertà on reporting these things is lifted.
What!?!?!?
I don’t know man. This crap gives such ammunition to the “both sides are corrupt” argument.
Do we really believe things in Ukraine would be better or even the same under Putin? What are we even talking about here?
I mean we can obviously see that things are far better in Crimea than anywhere in Ukraine right now. This isn’t even debatable. Comparing Russia to the absurd levels of corruption in Ukraine is not a serious argument to make.
Can we tho?
You’re so far off reality I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic.
I am shocked at how many liberals genuinely cannot seem to tell the difference between wanting something to be true and it actually being true.
The reality is that people in Crimea aren’t being grabbed off the streets and gang pressed into fighting.
Russia has been extremely corrupt for decades. Whatever weird made up world you are living in, come on back to reality. Even if Ukraine was the most corrupt country ever, bombing the shit out of the citizens is not the way you help. That’s just murder. Even if things are somehow better in Crimea, you’re comparing to a country being bombed by a larger country with more weapons and fighters. Crimea should not have been stolen in the first place. Help your neighbors, don’t hypocritically murder their people.
Even if Ukraine was the most corrupt country ever, bombing the shit out of the citizens is not the way you help
I don’t know, they sure tried it in the eastern part of the country for 10 years
Russia is clearly nowhere near as corrupt as Ukraine given that Russia is actually able to run a functioning economy and a military. In fact, there’s strong evidence to suggest that NATO is far more corrupt than Russia is given that Russia is single handedly outproducing all of the west militarily right now. Meanwhile, before yapping about Crimea, you might want to go read a history book for once in your life.
I know the history, that doesnt excuse invading them at this point. Neither is what one.corrupt country sees as corrupt in another. Your arguments hold no weight. Nothing you said justifies murdering people in a neighboring country.
Evidently, you’re fine with a western backed regime murdering its own people though.
Nothing justifies Ukraine murdering its own people in its own country for the eight years before this war started.
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- Internationalist 360°, 2022–2024: History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
That is not even the end of it.
I’d like to add on that there is literal footage of Ukrainian troops firing into crowds of civilians in Mariupol and Krasnoarmeysk back in 2014, both after Maidan Coup.
There is also footage of Ukrainian Nazis carrying out a pogrom against the Romani in 2018.
Sorry can you point out the exact points in those that justify the murdering a bombing of people in a foreign nation? 2014 especially was a pretty messed up time, by I’m not sure I follow you as to what justification for murdering and bombing them is. Especially with new leadership. Please explain the murdering a bombing.
NATO expansion:
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
NATO in general:- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
Especially with new leadership.
Zelensky was a comedian groomed by oligarchs. He played a president on TV and then ran for president on TV. This was planned out in advance. Zelensky has never been in control because he was an actor in way over his head, beholden to US comprador oligarchs, and his life is openly threatened by high-level Banderite fascists should he get out of line. And he’s quite wealthy now, an oligarch in his own right. He’s in no way a “servant of the people;” that’s an act played by an actor.
Ukraine has had corruption issues for a long time. NATO countries should stop pussy footing around and go in and help them. Route the corruption and fight Russia. I can’t imagine trying to fix the corruption that’s been embedded in your country for decades and then suddenly Russia is invading you. Now you need to try to route out corruption and fight a larger enemy? I really feel for the Ukrainian people, it’s been rough for a long time and just gets worse. Time to just wipe Russia off the map already, split the country up and give the land to the other surrounding nations.
Time to just wipe Russia off the map already, split the country up and give the land to the other surrounding nations.
Calm down, Mr Hitler.
Pretty sure Hitler’s plan was not split Russia up and give it to neighboring countries. But whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better about supporting a country that is murdering its neighbors. Putin would be the Hitler in this scenario. Taking over other countries and killing their people.
Fuck off, fascist
You are the fascist and you are supporting the fascists.
“I wanna fight corruption so bad I just gotta get a bit more corrupt to do so” - the good guys apparently
Time to just wipe Russia off the map already
Oh, is that all? Just ‘route the corruption’ and then casually ‘split up’ world’s biggest nuclear power? Totally won’t end in global glassing. It’s amazing how you solved a complex geopolitical crisis with the logic of a toddler smashing LEGOs.
No not “just” at all. It would take decades on both fronts. Your argument might make sense if you didn’t pervert mine by putting words in my mouth.
It’s clearly taken far lass than a decade for NATO to start coming apart, and it didn’t even fight Russia directly yet. So maybe come down there baby Hitler.
Yes NATO started coming apart because a corrupt leader came into power in the US. However that still doesn’t mean that Russia should be invading and killing people in a foreign nation. Stop supporting murder.
NATO started coming apart because NATO lost its proxy war against Russia, and the US is now throwing Europe under the bus while retrenching. It’s an incredibly infantile world view to think that all this is a result of a single individual making decision unilaterally. Weird how fash like you didn’t say a peep when the western installed regime in Ukraine has been killing people in Donbas for the past eight years. Stop pretending like you have some moral high ground.
You are supporting the death of innocent people instead of alterior methods. You can call people that prefer peace fascist all you want, but you are the bad guy here.
No, I don’t support fascists murdering people in Donbas. That’s what you support, that’s what makes you a fascist.
Yeah, the peace-prefer calling to “wipe Russia off the map”. Fuck off you Nazi freak.
Right? Never mind half of the corruption in Ukraine is likely perpetrated by people who would flourish in Putin’s Russia.
Another report from the Russian troll farm!
Noted Russian troll farm: The New York Times. Could you shitlibs at least pretend that “Russian trolls” doesn’t just mean “anyone who disagrees with you”?.
And the absolute smooth brained “leftists” on the fediverse are up voting this incoherent nonsense
Perfect shibboleth, I have no idea if this is or isn’t a joke
ahh, yes, the new york times, the good old, well famous and regarded russian troll farm
why would you clown yourself like this
