cross-posted from: https://linux.community/post/3497784
Example: several of my former coworkers are from Mexico, Peru and Argentina, meaning they share Spanish as a common language.
I used to practice Spanish with them, but my last charge (like a ward’s manager) would yell at us to stop it, use English only. She would get very angry really fast if she heard anything in a language she didn’t understand.
I find it stupid, because some of them would use Spanish to better explain to the new nurses how to do certain procedures, but maybe I’m missing something?
Fucking stupid. The Haitians didn’t speak English and we needed our bilingual guy to speak Spanish sometimes or else we wouldn’t get shit done. Oh also the boss’s English was shit too and sometimes him and the others from the country our company was from needed to communicate clearly
Racist, and a way for management to know if workers are discussing unionization.
Not always, it’s also a politeness thing, it depends on context
Preserving “politeness” is the same tactic they use to keep workers from discussing their pay with each other, which is also deeply anti-labor.
Sure, I won’t disagree that it’s anti labour, but being polite to and around your co workers is important
I don’t agree. Forcing people to use a language they are less comfortable with just so others can eavesdrop has nothing to do with “politeness.”
It’s not eavesdropping lol. I worked a company that was primarily Chinese people at the head office and they made a rule of speaking in English for inclusivity.
The post references any usage of spanish as bannable. There’s a difference between workers speaking spanish with each other while someone who only speaks English is present, and workers speaking spanish with each other when nobody else is involved with the conversation. I also worked at a company with a huge portion of speakers that were uncomfortable with speaking English despite myself only speaking English, any attempt to ban their language would hurt the company.
Right? Hence context
You mean, what you ignored?
Lol no, i clearly didn’t
I am directly replying to the context listed out by the user, which in this case seems to be racist and anti-worker.
And I am directly replying to you saying there is context and I specifically said not always
I think you should have asked what context was being referred to.
I can’t really imagine a context where it would be a politeness thing unless the English-only speaker was actively involved in the conversation but was being intentionally shut-out, and not because it was easier to convey in non-English languages but deliberately for spite.
I can’t really imagine a context except for this very common context which completely negates my point
Well said!
It isn’t the context brought up in the post body, so no, it doesn’t completely negate my point. The post is talking about banning any and all use of spanish, period, and the other user came in trying to talk about a different situation entirely.
Why do you care about what I do if I’m not talking you? If talking a different language seems impolite to you and you’re not the one talking, who the fuck cares? That’s a you problem.
Sure you’re allowed to be ass, that’s also a you problem lol
You can tell it’s not that cuz of how quick the person got angry. If it’s remarkable enough to seem strange, there’s a reason.
In meetings English or Dutch depending on the language skills of the people. Eating or anything else together the same. Two people from the same country collaborating on something with just the two of them, their own! Way more effective as long as their documentation is in English again :)
At the break table talking another language, no problem. Needing it to be able to understand their job, problem. Unless your clients are mostly Spanish it is their needs that are being overlooked. They need someone fully competent in an official language. If nurses revert to Spanish when they don’t understand things, then their manager doesn’t know what it is that they are having a problem with, unless someone is translating for her. She could end up in trouble for putting someone on a task that they are not able to do. I don’t immediately see it a a racist problem (although it could be) but a work safety problem.
Here I am thinking that it would be sick to have more multilingual coworkers. I’m struggling through learning the basics of a couple second languages (not complaining, it is what it is and I’ll get there eventually). So its nice to have a native or fluent speakers around to help communicate with someone who doesn’t speak english that well. Or at all. At work our english-speaking offices expect people who are stationed there to be able to speak English, or to learn it if they don’t. But it’s not mandatory to speak it in-office. Usually it’s just faster for people to speak other languages with non-english locations or ESL people. Honestly its usually it’s the other way around, with people in other places learning English to talk with us, but that doesn’t always work out well. Its nice to be able to do both.
Your (edit - former?) manager sounds sheltered and unprofessional, to say the least. I hope HR gets involved (unless they’re racists too…)
I was always told it’s a bit rude to use a language that not everyone present understands, since you’re basically excluding people from the conversation. Your example seems a bit silly though.
Same. English is my second language but I still make sure to speak english even if talking to someone from my country if there is someone who doesn’t speak portuguese nearby
Offense: “a bit rude”
Punishment: no job, bad references, no health insurance
What’s funny is no charge nurse is capable of getting you to the point of getting fired over this shit. They’re just capable of making you want to quit. Management does not like spending money orienting new nurses.
Talking to a person excludes all others by default. If I’m talking to you I’m not talking to the guy behind me. What does the guy behind me care what language we’re using? And why should I care about the one I’m NOT talking to.
Nah if it’s the workplace, I treat it like talking at a dinner table. I’m definitely using the common language and not excluding my coworkers. I’m being thoughtful towards the people around me.
I also get that speaking in a language my company doesn’t understand could make them uncomfortable. I speak a 2nd language. The very few times that I’ve used it at work (not in an interpreter/translator capacity), it was because a certain coworker switched to talk shit about another coworker to me. So yes, people absolutely do this to talk shit. It’s not paranoia, it happens.
Hallway chat is the reason people come to the office.
It’s impossible to take part if people use a language you don’t know.
I thought people came to work because they needed the money, lol. And, yes, it’s impossible, and perhaps they don’t wanna include me in the conversation… am I supposed to force them?
I’m trying to figure out why a manager would assume that people speaking in Spanish are doing it to have a nefarious, malicious secret code, when Spanish is the fourth-most widely spoken language on the planet, and is not a difficult second language for English speakers to start picking up comprehension with.
If I wanted an evil secret code, wouldn’t I pick something far more obscure?
Erhapspay ig pay atin lay?
Honestly, time to talk to HR who I’m sure would have a quiet word with this manager.
This sounds like bullying, triggered by racism/xenophia/paranoia or just plain bigotry. And yelling at people? That’s terrible too.
I had a bilingual coworker that, after a customer came with a complaint, would turn to me and say “this asshole can suck my dick” in spanish and i would just nod thoughtfully like some important piece of information was given to troubleshoot with.
Shit was so funny. Very rude but i still laugh at that.
Ive never had coworkers talking meaninggully behind someones back in another language, and yeah thats rude too.
I have been the only people talking english somewhere and i felt rude for that.
Whether any of this rudeness justfies work place punishment or should or shouldnt be allowed just depends on the job.
That’s extremely risky, a TON of people speak Spanish, including a bunch who you would assume did not by surface-level appearance. Your coworker got really lucky that they didn’t get caught and called out.
Time and place. The hours sucked, the system we supported was worse, and we made sure it worked regardless. Place was lowkey toxic but in a comradery kind of way. I agree though. Assuming people dont know, especially cuss words, is asking for it lol
If you’re scared of another language it just means you’re a puta gordo
50+ Caucasian cis male multinational tech company middle manager here.
I speak Spanish on work zooms, when everyone else is in Mexico.
TBH I do it because I try to avoid being the asshole boss who everyone else has to accommodate, and instead be the pluralistic, humble boss that shows appropriate deference and respect to the employees that actually do the work.
For the most part I think you should be allowed to speak whatever language you want so long as you aren’t speaking it with a customer, co-worker, boss, etcetera, that doesn’t understand it.
I personally don’t see any reason why the language you speak should be policed so long as you aren’t using it with people who don’t understand it, unless they’re saying illegal things, but even then that can be shaky depending on what country you’re in IMO.
Personally, assuming its the local language, I’m fine with the idea.
People who are multilingual don’t always seem to get how it looks/feels for monolingual people – but it’s a way of excluding them from participating in whatever the conversation is. I think back to a camping trip described by an X with her friends, where in most of the group spoke english and chinese – except my X, who only spoke english. Because one or two in the group were more fluent in Chinese, for most of the weekend the vast majority of conversation was in Chinese, which really drove home how isolating / alienating it can be to be the person left out. You’re basically being pre-excluded from a conversation, just to make it easier for communication with someone else – your basic participation is less important than the other person’s ease of communication. My X had no concern about them “talkin bout her behind her back” or anything, they were all friends, but she finally understood how it comes across.
While the majority of the work force may speak another language, the “main” language in a country is to me, meant to serve as a default for business. If I were multilingual, working in a foreign non-english country, I’d expect any business I worked for to require me to use their local language. Even more, when it comes to supervisors/team leads, hearing the conversations can also help you target potential issues – like if you overhear a team member teaching something incorrectly. So there’s a potential business liability type reason to make sure that all team members, especially oversight, can understand what’s getting said if it pertains to the business.
Seems like a horribly xenophobic policy. Honestly a red flag.
I personally speak Spanish and French at work, in addition to obviously English. Work is the only place I really get to practice speaking French, and I take any chance I can to speak Spanish since I don’t want to lose it
It sounds like you’re dealing with a multinational company.
There may be value in having all employees operate in the company’s ligua franca over a better language as it provides practice to employees to function in the common language.
It may be easier for you to function in Spanish now, but you may have to interface with employees in the future where they know English and not Spanish.
How do you help those who can’t speak Spanish?
Maybe this person is an asshole and has the reasonable expectation that people will say rude things about them if they can’t understand what they are saying.
