• rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    Zelensky is a bit like a CEO presenting his company’s prospects. He was talking like this two years ago, too.

    I personally think he’s not wrong. Just - until Kremlin gang’s members and their families are being caught and jailed\deported all over the globe, or at least in NATO countries, this is all bullshit. Well, maybe after failing in Ukraine they’ll attack some smaller and weaker country, just to show themselves they can defeat someone. And maybe they’ll try again.

    In any case - yes, that leadership keeps Russia weak, inefficient, dependent, but as everyone can see, it’s also capable of destruction on scale too big to allow. So maybe some optimism should be applied and the goal be for Russia’s regime to change and for it to have a democracy that may make its potential useful for everyone around. The “keeping it weak” approach, after all, has already led to Putin.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      11 hours ago

      I think that’s more up to the Russian people than anyone in the west. Russians like strong men, it’s a weakness in their society. Everyone outside Russia wanted it to continue to be a democracy, Russia even had a brief association with NATO while it was. But Yeltsin drank too much (alcoholism being another weakness in Russian society) and that allowed a guy like Putin to make himself a Czar.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        Russians like strong men, it’s a weakness in their society.

        No, it’s not any more a Russian weakness than an American one, even less than a Japanese or a Chinese one.

        Especially unwise to judge Russians by American stereotypes of Russians.

        Everyone outside Russia wanted it to continue to be a democracy

        How’s that compatible with supporting Yeltsin in his 1993 coup and in stealing 1996 elections?

        Russia even had a brief association with NATO while it was.

        No it didn’t. Yeltsin wanted that, yes, and Putin wanted that too. Both wanted to be a big, scary country accepted to NATO and with NATO weaponry. Like Turkey, but with nukes. What both didn’t want is dropping the bullshit about spheres of influence and being an equal of the USA, apparently got told by NATO that beggars are not choosers. Also wanting an association with NATO has plainly nothing to do with being a democracy or not.

        But Yeltsin drank too much (alcoholism being another weakness in Russian society) and that allowed a guy like Putin to make himself a Czar.

        I think you skipped the part where I was educating you that Yeltsin made himself Czar in 1993 and just passed it on to Putin.

        I don’t really care that it breaks your narrative. Putin is a natural continuation of the western-supported and consulted regime in Russia installed in 1993. That Yeltsin presented himself as some liberator and Putin presented himself as ex Soviet intelligence are campaign pictures that mean nothing. All the trusted people around Putin are the same that Yeltsin had even before 1991. Including Putin himself.

        Alcoholism is not a bigger weakness in the Russian society than in British ones or in Sweden or in Finland.

    • KumaSudosa@feddit.dk
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      13 hours ago

      Most of all the Russians simply can’t stomach a reality where they’re not a feared global superpower, to such a degree that they’d rather shoot themselves in the foot and be a shithole rather than just a regular better functioning nation

        • KumaSudosa@feddit.dk
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          4 hours ago

          In some ways, yes. American soft power and trust in the country just got fully tanked, but I see it as unrealistic that the country won’t still be a superpower trying to insert itself into everything… it just won’t have a lot of allies. But then again they control all of social media (minus Tiktok) so I’ll bet they’ll sway some assbrains around the world anyway, like with the election in Poland.

          The tech and military industries in USA are too powerful that it’ll lose all of its relevance. Of course, the people will live increasingly worse lives - I just hope it’ll at least hit Republicans the worst

    • IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz
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      15 hours ago

      The “keeping it weak” approach, after all, has already led to Putin.

      No one kept Russia weak when Soviet Union collapsed. Yeltsin brought a lot of democractic traits into Russia and it was heavily leaning towards west on multiple areas. Should they kept going on that direction they’d be a global superpower on pretty much all fronts by now, surpassing US and even China.

      But they had also pretty big internal problems and a ton of people who desired old soviet times and whatever, so we ended up with what we have today. Wikipedia has way more info and links to study it further.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        Yeltsin brought a lot of democractic traits into Russia

        No. The democratic mechanisms started working a bit earlier than the USSR stopped existing.

        People like Sakharov, Galina Starovoitova, have your heard of such names?

        The democratic reforms happened before USSR’s collapse.

        Yeltsin used that to come to power in 1991, and then kicked the ladder in 1993, and in 1999 named Putin as the next president on television. Oh, of course Putin “won” an election after that.

        And that process was actively supported by western governments, especially in 1996, with the justification that an honest democracy in Russia will lead to scary-scary communists coming back to power.

        Should they kept going on that direction they’d be a global superpower on pretty much all fronts by now, surpassing US and even China.

        Yeltsin was a dying alcoholic living uncritically and without shame by the motto “to my friends everything, to everyone else the law”. They have kept going on that exact direction. That’s the bloody point.

        Yeltsin usurped power in 1993. If that didn’t happen and the conflict between Yeltsin and the parliament was resolved peacefully and legally (by having snap parliament and presidential elections simultaneously, so - replacing both sides of the conflict, in other words, Yeltsin would have to back the democratic claims with the democratic action of leaving the post ; that was the constitutional court’s decision), then maybe. But instead Yeltsin used tanks to resolve the dispute.

        Anyway, no, even if 1993 conflict would end differently, I think surpassing Germany is possible.

        Soviet Union was an interesting part of the planet, the older generation from there can “know” and teach you all the right things, but not live by them. Talk about bravery and honor, and very correctly, but act dishonorably and be completely blind to that, talk about science and logic and critical mind and very correctly, but go to fortunetellers and believe in energies. Talk about principle, but not follow it. Never use the “thought experiment” tool freely. And so on.

        They needed lots of time to fix that - through pain. It’s not been 40 years yet, if we take biblical timespans. Maybe in year 2031 Russia will finally be ready.

        But they had also pretty big internal problems and a ton of people who desired old soviet times and whatever, so we ended up with what we have today. Wikipedia has way more info and links to study it further.

        In 1991 nobody desired “old times” back. People saw how it all was degrading until falling apart. Don’t you give me Wikipedia links, lol. Something should have happened for a lot of people to wish a “restoration”, don’t you think so? Like what I’ve described. And that “restoration” was provided by the same people, Yeltsin’s people, with the figure of Putin and his image of a “former Soviet intelligence operative”.

        • QueenFern@lemmy.world
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          13 hours ago

          I appreciate this response. It’s informative, and I learned a lot. Thank you for taking the time to post.

      • IncogCyberspaceUser@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        How would Russia have surpassed the US and China? What did they have that would have contributed to that superiority? I realize that is a massive question, but to a a casual observer, that seems curious.

      • Red Army Dog Cooper@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        Heys Boris “Bomb the parliment” Yeltsin super democratic. as we all know Democracy is when you disreguard a vote, then when the parliment makes you mad you bomb it into submission, all brought to you by pizza hut