Brian Molko criticised Giorgia Meloni during a concert at the Sonic Park festival

Meloni heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.

  • newcolour@reddthat.comEnglish
    1542·
    1 year ago

    Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.

  • thann@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1135·
    1 year ago

    how to tell if youre in a facist state:
    the person accusing the facist goes to jail

    • cisco877@lemmy.worldEnglish
      361·
      1 year ago

      It’s the sign of a civilised state, where you can’t just randomly offend whoever you want a scale, you need to go to court and prove that you actually have proofs about what you’re saying. I applaud this move from the government, the left wings after years of cutting public services to bend to corporativism and ECB, leaving the country in the hands of all sort of migrants without doing anything for security, finally got what they deserve, and now everyone else is a fascist, but with no content

      • nadir@lemmy.worldEnglish
        312·
        1 year ago

        Oh, Lemmy has fascists now.

        The left wing was cutting public services, right. Famous left wing policy. I think you’re thinking of liberals.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.worldEnglish
          141·
          1 year ago

          It’s astounding these people still don’t realize how obvious their tells are. Blaming migrants? Almost certainly an insensible right winger.

        • Sarla@lemmy.worldEnglish
          512·
          1 year ago

          One of the main ‘issues’ with decentralised social media is that it allows the fringes of the political spectrum to have a platform. We’ll have to find a way to get along.

              • acargitz@lemmy.caEnglish
                7·
                1 year ago

                It’s part of a process.

                • Step 1. Nazi says nazi things.
                • Step 2. Non nazi reports to instance admin.
                • Step 3. If the nazi is local, the instance admin can choose to ban. If not, the instance admin can choose to ban the user from their own instance and then escalate to the nazi’s instance admin.
                • Step 4. If the nazi’s instance admin takes action, the nazi needs to find a new home, end of story. If not, that means that the nazi’s instance admin is chill with nazi shit.
                • Step 5. The local instance admin can then chose to defederate from an instance that is chill with nazi shit.

                To me this looks like a pretty robust process. What other steps would you add?

                • Zapafaz@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Main thing I can think of is an option for non-admin users to block an instance on the client side. Like blocking a community or user except it does both, for everybody from that instance.

        • cisco877@lemmy.worldEnglish
          313·
          1 year ago

          It can’t be that whoever has a different opinion is a fascist, also because I was just having a conversation, it doesn’t make sense, if everyone else is a fascist, the term loses any meaning and it’s hard to fight back the real fascists. Guess another issue with the boom of lemmy is that all the judge juries and executors from twitter are arriving.

          • TwoGems@lemmy.worldEnglish
            124·
            1 year ago

            No you’re just a fascist agreeing with a fascist government. Might as well call yourself what you are.

              • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
                4·
                1 year ago

                Fascism has an actual definition. People pretending it’s just a vague insult are likely fascists themselves in my experience.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
        7·
        1 year ago

        Sorry but people who openly admire Mussolini (the original self-proclaimed fascist) are fascists pretty much by definition. Sounds like you may be one of them.

      • Robaque@feddit.itEnglish
        5·
        1 year ago

        If “civilised” means I have to tolerate fascists then I don’t wanna be civilised

        • cisco877@lemmy.worldEnglish
          25·
          1 year ago

          That’s a fair point, I would agree in general, but those who are often asked to prove what they say are usually people in positions of power or with a huge base, like in this case a singer, not some poor working class. I can’t understand how why you people think that going to court for asserting guilt is fascist…

            • cisco877@lemmy.worldEnglish
              25·
              1 year ago

              I am not sure I understand what you are saying, it seems a bunch of buzzwords put together in a random way, starting from a civil court trial for defamation up to mafia to supreme court and back, they’re not even the same courts. Sorry I am not interested in juggling, there is a guy who has to prove that what he said has basis and is not defamation, he has money to pay for a lawyer, if you think everyone should be able to offend anyone without effects, be it, i don’t agree

        • cisco877@lemmy.worldEnglish
          21·
          1 year ago

          Seems like a great community with intelligent people able to sustain a conversation in the making, I’m understanding where twitter folks are moving

  • Dmian@lemmy.worldEnglish
    104·
    1 year ago

    As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…

  • Jaysyn@kbin.social
    927·
    1 year ago

    I’m sure Placebo, a British band, doesn’t give a single dry fuck what this stupid Italian fascist wants to investigate.

    Someone is about to learn what “Streisand Effect” means.

  • Cyber Yuki@lemmy.worldEnglish
    81·
    1 year ago

    Ah, yes, nothing like forbidding people from calling out fascism to prove your government isn’t fascist.

  • IninewCrow@kbin.social
    62·
    1 year ago

    Didn’t the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      1 year ago

      Yeah this was my thought reading this, too.

      Who woulda thunk that when you give the fascists power, they don’t stop being fascists! #surprisedpikachu

    • Something_Complex@lemmy.worldEnglish
      151·
      1 year ago

      Have you ever heard of Mafia. Bc if you come to this country they will mostly collectively lie and tell you" Hun? Naaaa that’s gone". You live here for a while and you like, oh ok, we just pretending it’s gone nice.

    • lemme_at_it@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7·
      1 year ago

      The fact that the Italian military & it’s leaders were spared from the Nuremberg Trials made this all the easier.

    • Emu@lemmy.mlEnglish
      104·
      1 year ago

      Italy has a real hardware love for fascism, it’s part of the culture, unfortunately. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go full Nazi in the coming decades.

      • nefonous@lemmy.worldEnglish
        91·
        1 year ago

        After WW2 italian socialist and communist parties where between the strongest ones in non USRR europe (if not the number one), but let’s just spout random nonsense for no reason

        While the extreme right wing never disappeared, they were as much as a niche as the extreme left.

        The country stayed between the left and the center until well into the 90s when a moderate right became more prominent and started to be closer to a 50/50 split

        The general right wing radicalization we’re seeing now is way more recent and it’s hardly a phenomenon exclusive to Italy.

        I totally agree that the current Italian government is ridiculous and that this problem with extreme right wing populism is becoming very serious in most western countries, Italy included.

        But comparing this to a culture ingrained love for fascism when fascism didn’t last for even 1% of Italian history and culture is just asinine and ignorant.

        This kind of attitude is ironically very similar to the racism you’re trying to criticize

  • acargitz@lemmy.caEnglish
    521·
    1 year ago

    Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it’s the courts that are accepting that she’s a fascist.

    5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.

    GO BRIAN

    • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      371·
      1 year ago

      Person: “You’re a fascist”

      Government: “That’s wrong; we’re gonna use the power of the state to investigate and punish you for something you said”

      Person: “Oh well I stand corrected. Totally not fascist at all…”

      • electrogamerman@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        1 year ago

        Thats the fascist paradox.

        Call someone a fascist, if they want to oppress you because you lied, then you are right, so they can oppress you, but if they dont oppress you, then you are wrong and you are to be oppressed, but then you will be right.

      • Fisting for Freedom@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        910·
        1 year ago

        The USSR would also persecute people for criticizing the Soviet state or its leaders, but they weren’t fascist. Authoritarianism is something people on the left and right both get up to.

        • socsa@lemmy.mlEnglish
          121·
          1 year ago

          I mean we are kind of splitting hairs a bit then. The worst thing about fascism is mostly the autocracy and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude. When people talk about the evils of fascism that’s what they’re talking about.

          Likewise, when people criticize Stalinism, they aren’t talking about the high minded ideals or even the questionable fashion choices. They are talking about the autocracy, and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude.

        • SuperApples@lemmy.worldEnglish
          81·
          1 year ago

          If left-wing authoritarianism isn’t an oxymoron, then what the heck does left-wing mean?

          I agree that authoritarianism does not equal fascism, but the only meaningful definition of left-right politics (in my opinion) is a measure of belief in and adherence to social hierarchies. And the USSR was definitely heavily into hierarchy.

          • Shardikprime@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            1 year ago

            Why would it be an oxymoron? There is nothing on the political chart or inherent to it to forbid the left wing to be authoritarian.

            • SuperApples@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              1 year ago

              This is my thinking, let me know if you see any issues with my interpretation:

              First line of Wikipedia Left-wing politics: Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy as a whole.

              First list of Wikiepdia Authoritarianism: Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.

              By these definitions, Left-wing politics should want to evenly distribute power democratically, whereas authoritarianism wants to centralise power in a single entity such as a the military or a dictator.

              The perpetual dictatorship of the proletariat in Marxist-Leninism is functionally indifferent from the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The authoritarian leadership just becomes the new bourgeoisie.

              • Shardikprime@lemmy.worldEnglish
                12·
                1 year ago

                All good with the definitions, please share them as much as you want.

                My claim is extremely simple, nothing is gonna stop you as a left wing representative to reach those objectives through authoritarian means.

                I don’t see how is that hard to understand unless you claim some kind of special position for either side.

                In which case, this is not a conversation I’m interested in.

          • nadir@lemmy.worldEnglish
            31·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, that’s where the left-right concept kinda breaks down.

            It feels wrong to say the USSR wasn’t left when you consider the many left policies they had and of course their origin.

            I also agree with your idea of what left-wing should mean. I guess there’s no way to avoid complexity with topics like this.

          • Fisting for Freedom@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            46·
            1 year ago

            Oh, Mellonhead is definitely a fascist, I’m just pointing out that you get the same kinda of oppression at the other end of the lef-right spectrum, too.

            • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.worldEnglish
              4·
              1 year ago

              There’s plenty of oppression and violence smack dab in the center of the left right spectrum too. I’m not sure why horseshoe theory is so keen to equate Stalin, Mao, etc. with the violence of Hitler, Pinochet, etc. while ignoring the genocides of the Dutch East India Co. (and competitors), imperialism, the slave trade, settler colonialism, etc.

              • Fisting for Freedom@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                1·
                1 year ago

                Absolutely! This is why, even though the political compass is a memey oversimplification at this point, it does get a the inadequacy of a single dimension view of political ideology. The authoritarian mindset is a human trait, and while some ideologies seem more prone to attracting people with that particular trait, by no means does it only occur in those cases.

                Some people just want to rule over others.

        • MonsieurHedge@kbin.social
          107·
          1 year ago

          I’d argue the USSR was fascist the same way the DPRK is fascist. You aren’t necessarily left-wing just because you say you are.

          • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
            64·
            1 year ago

            I can see the parallels but this really conflicts with the historical definition of fascist. Then again, practically everyone is a fascist these days at least according to someone, so maybe the historical definition doesn’t matter anymore. Guess that’s the downside of it being the universally despised bogeyman term in politics.

            • trafguy@midwest.social
              6·
              1 year ago

              Thought it might be helpful to compare the USSR to Wikipedia’s definitions of fascism and communism. These definitions can be wrong or could be different than what they were at the height of the USSR, but perhaps it’ll help with finding common definitions. I’ll admit that my knowledge of USSR culture/governance is limited, so feel free to critique/refute any of my interpretations.

              Fascism:

              Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

              Checklist (hidden for brevity)
              1. +Dictatorial leader: Stalin wasn’t exactly a democratic ruler. Check.
              2. ?Centralized autocracy: AKA: One person has final say over any government decision. Probably, but maybe not depending on your definition?
              3. +Militarism: Definitely had a significant military focus. Check.
              4. +Forcible suppression of opposition: Yeah, that sounds par for the course for modern Russian government.
              5. ?Belief in natural social hierarchy: Does semi-deliberate wealth disparity and nationalistic superiority complex count?
              6. ?Subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race: Sounds likely, but not 100% sure.
              7. +Strong regimentation of society and the economy: Pretty sure the USSR had a planned centralized economy.

              It hits 4/7 pretty firmly and the remaining 3 are plausible.

              Communism:

              is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology… whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.

              Checklist (hidden for brevity)
              1. XCommon ownership of the means of production of goods/services: Weren’t these state-owned?
              2. XCommon ownership of the means of distribution of goods/services: ^
              3. XCommon ownership of the means of exchange of goods/services: ^^
              4. ?Allocates products to everyone in the society based on need: Wasn’t there significant poverty while others’ were well-fed? If distribution wasn’t tied to labor, then it could be argued this fits, if somewhat imperfectly.
              5. XAbsence of private property: Oligarchs don’t exactly scream “lack of private property”
              6. XAbsence of social classes: Again, oligarchs and poverty
              7. ?Absence of money: Can’t comment on this one
              8. XAbsence of the state: There was 100% an overarching state

              Hits 2/8 at best, but I would be surprised to learn there wasn’t money in the USSR.

        • Nukemin Herttua@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          11·
          1 year ago

          Yes, but that is a different conversation. Now we are talking about Meloni and her ties to the far right 🙂

    • SuddenlyNope@lemmy.oneEnglish
      9·
      1 year ago

      As Italian is worth mentioning that these nationalist dimwits we have now in charge have being elected with a genius grade new electoral law pushed by the centre left coalition and especially devised in a bipartisan accord between the centre left and the centre right coalition to counter the rise of Movimento 5 Stelle (or any new “small” party) which would then interfere, as indeed it did in the previous election, with the well established bi-partitism which had been instated from Berlusconi since the late 90’s (as per P2 Masonry Group Manifest bullet point, https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_di_rinascita_democratica and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due).

      As result of this new electoral law Meloni is holding Italian government by the balls with a mere actual 16,4% of votes on the voters total.

      Let’s go into numbers, indeed Meloni coalition (“centre” right, lol) got 43,79% of the total valid votes, of which 26% for Meloni’s own Fratelli d’Italia party, but you must consider that these percentages do not include the 36,91% of citizens holding voting rights which didn’t actually vote at all, which means this non-group missed to be the largest non-coalition by little and de-facto resulted in non-being the most non-representative non-party.
      So accounting for the 36.91% of non-voters Meloni is acting like an empress embodying the second coming of Mussolini with a scant 16.4% of actual voting preference. For this don’t forget to thank the center-left for pushing the afore mentioned new electoral law, because this only is what enabled her to act like she’s doing.

      BONUS: article on some buried past of Meloni as failed nerd wannabe career using public money
      https://kotaku.com/georgia-meloni-italian-pm-fps-shooter-game-pope-unreal-1850163072

      • nadir@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        1 year ago

        We have an old saying in Germany, from the times of the Weimar Republic’s communists, which roughly translates to:

        “Who has betrayed us? The Social Democrats”

        It rhymes in German.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          1 year ago

          Wasn’t the Weimar communist party also the one who said “after Hitler, us”, and formed a coalition? I may be completely mistaken and misremembering. My impression was always that it wasn’t the center left nor the left at fault, it was their feuding with each other that allowed Hitler to rise.

          Had the two groups seen each other as rivals and not enemies, I think things would be way different.

  • socsa@lemmy.mlEnglish
    461·
    1 year ago

    She’s literally the head of a self proclaimed fascist party, isn’t she?

  • PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    453·
    1 year ago

    Meloni, 46, heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 (£858 to £4,290) anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.

    Wow. Ok then…I guess technically he did violate that law and so it shouldn’t matter how fucked up that law is with respect to an investigation being done about it, but can we still talk about how fucked up that law is in an EU country? Yeah I know Italy’s a little bit different and such, but goddamn.

    W would have loved to have had something like this when the Dixie Chicks got out of line over Iraq (though his response quoted there seems oddly…reasonable? ehh, fuck W): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_controversy

    • MercuryUprising@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      1 year ago

      They have it in a lot of other countries in Europe too. Its fucking disgusting and constantly abused by conservatives. You also see it being used against people who insult the church in certain countries.

      • stappern@lemmy.oneEnglish
        12·
        1 year ago

        It’s far from being a problem imho all of these are extremely rare and often don’t go anywhere

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          Having unenforced laws is a problem in itself. If everyone is used to ignoring the law and breaking it all the time, becomes a great way to let pretty tyrants selectively prosecute people they don’t like.