• Madison420@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    An armed left is like base level marxism, how are people still surprised by that at this point?

    • micka190@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Because American media keeps pushing the idea that the Democrats are “the left” and because Democrats oppose guns because the Republicans promote them, they equate owning a gun with being a part of “the right”.

      • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Also far right conservative men are given all the permission in the world to threaten violence whereas many groups of people on the left, and leftism in general are defined by conservatives as inherently dangerous which both makes it practically much more dangerous to own guns and carry them (because you will just got shot by a cop and the cop won’t even get in trouble they can just say “they looked dangerous”) and also makes a culture of responsible gun ownership way harder to grow because the societal conditions around it are aggressively hostile to leftwing people owning guns.

        Listen to the way centrists talk about the threat of violence from the far left and far right in the US, of course there are shitty, dangerous people on the left, but to compare the two as if there were similar amounts of violence coming from both is a ridiculous misstatement of reality.

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          The fuck are you talking about, cops don’t ask what your political lean is…if they want to shot you they will. Being a responsible gun owner also has nothing to do with politics, get strapped and keep the 4 rules in mind. There are a ton of us on the left who own guns and more and more are arming themselves on the left.

          • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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            8 months ago

            The fuck are you talking about, cops don’t ask what your political lean is…

            As someone who noticed the difference between how police treated BLM protestors vs Jan 06 insurrectionists I think it’s pretty clear that if they do have an inkling of your leanings it’s gonna make a difference, at least in preconceived notions as they enter into their interaction with you, and how aggressively they come at you in the first place.

              • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                8 months ago

                Depending on what you are implying regarding which was which, I have a hunch we aren’t going to agree on that detail, and I’m doubtful either will change the others mind, so I’m just going to cut this off here.

                Edited because my original wording was nearly gibberish.

                • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  I’m saying the insurrectionists were armed, as well as the idiot protestors outside of many State Capitol buildings, and so the cops are a lot more apprehensive about harassing or confronting them than they were towards BLM protestors. There was a lot more at play on January 6th than just being armed though, including ideological alignment, and support from high level politicians.

                  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                    8 months ago

                    Ah, I misinterpreted not only who you were saying was armed, but also your implied result.

                    I agree, but that just makes police look even worse than if it were mere bigotry and bias.

          • Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Whats funny is I keep hearing about bots and operatives on Lemmy that go around promoting things that arent the status quo like we are the next social media. And the kind of people saying it thinks everyone needs to stick to a party line or else! Like or else what? If I do not love every thing Big Dem is pushing, I am a Russian shill bot trying to destroy America. The downvotes you have are from people barely able to form thoughts past doing what they are told.

      • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        Yeah - in non US places gun ownership only means one thing: you own a gun. It says nothing about your politics. And yes, US democrats being referred to as “left” is ridiculous. The Democrat party wouldn’t even be a centrist party in most (western) democracies.

        • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Believe it or not, there are plenty of Democrat and Republican gun owners alike who view gun ownership the same as you do, and don’t make it their entire identity, political or otherwise. We just don’t get constantly exposed to that reality, because it doesn’t make for interesting headlines, or divisive online debate.

          • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            Good. I’m glad. I had my suspicions that was the case but it’s nice to have it confirmed by an insider. I always struggled to believe that an entire nation of so many millions of people would have a one size fits all pro/anti stance on any one topic; it’d be absurd.

          • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            Pepsi - the choice of a new generation… of woke, pronoun-shifting libtards. As an aside I like your spelling. It’s reminded me to listen to Ice Cube’s Amerikkka’s Most Wanted again.

              • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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                3 months ago

                I remember that now you mention it. Bartering with a super power seemed crazy to me back then. It’s amazing how little seems to have genuinely improved for Russians (specifically) since the fall of the USSR - we had high hopes of a new age but… gestures broadly at the current state of Europe and shakes head.

              • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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                8 months ago

                Are you familiar with sarcasm / irony / satire? I’m quoting and subsequently mangling a slogan from 1985. (c. Forty years ago) Surely you haven’t taken that comment at face value?

      • explodicle@local106.com
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        8 months ago

        Republicans “support” guns up until black people start marching with them.

        Democrats “oppose” guns except for the police who shoot black people.

      • Neato@ttrpg.network
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        8 months ago

        Democrats don’t oppose guns. Democrats are for base-level gun control. Republicans are insane, NRA-supporting fools who would rather 5 year old children get massacred weekly instead of have any potential gun controls.

        • Mango@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Gun control is for the quiet majority to disarm the minority through things like false charges and disqualifying their opposition.

          • forrgott@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            Really? Yeah, it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with, you know, actually keeping kids safe. No, that actually makes sense, and even worse, isn’t about “me”!

            For the record, even if there’s anything to your absurd statement, I’m all for gun control. I care more about kids’ lives than yours.

            • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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              8 months ago

              You’re not making a very good case. Historically speaking, American gun laws have universally been about disarmament as opposed to harm reduction.

              If, for example, the awb had included free publicly accessible classes on gun safety and massive funding for mental health services then you’d be able to make the connection between gun control laws and an effort to lower child mortality.

              • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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                8 months ago

                free publicly accessible classes on gun safety and massive funding for mental health services then you’d be able to make the connection between gun control laws and an effort to lower child mortality.

                You mean what used to be taught in high schools? But slowly over time was removed from every school in the whole nation?

                We had archery in our high school. Years prior to mine had classes on guns… Years after mine, not even archery.

                • forrgott@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  I can’t help but notice that you are simply making the argument that we’ve done it wrong before, therefore I want it done wrong again.

                  Okay, sure. What a strong case you made. You win, or whatever.

                  • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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                    8 months ago

                    No, and clearly you didn’t bother to read. My point was that WE DID do public education on the matter. For some reason we decided to stop doing it. And now people like you are claiming that we should be freely and publicly conducting classes.

                    I made no case for anything other than outlining that we used to teach this shit in schools.

                    Clearly schools have failed to teach you reading comprehension.

              • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                8 months ago

                R always deflect to mental health. But Reagan dismantled our mental health infrastructure, and R consistently votes against spending in that area. (Probably because they won’t ever seem to vote for anything that helps people, only for taking things from people.)

                So R needs to support gun control, OR support funding mental health services, OR come clean and admit that school shootings are a price they are willing to pay as long as they get to keep their weapons and do as they will with them.

                (They did like the mulford act, but we all know what that was really about. The one thing more important that guns to that crowd.)

                • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  It’s always one political party’s fault, never the clear result of what a system of government was designed to do.

                  The nfa was bipartisan, gca was bipartisan, fopa was bipartisan, the Brady bill was bipartisan.

                  The majority of child gun deaths are accidental or suicide.

                  If the point was ever to reduce child deaths from firearms then the gun control legislation would have mental health funding and safety education funding attached.

                  At some point you gotta look at two hundred years of extremely well documented history and recognize this system is working as intended.

                  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                    8 months ago

                    If the point was ever to reduce child deaths from firearms then the gun control legislation would have mental health funding and safety education funding attached.

                    First, I don’t how that could be your response to my comment about the current state of mental health. So R is magically going to vote for two things they never (in recent history - say since school shootings became the big issue they are now - or even say since death by gun became the top cause of childhood death) vote for as long as we put those things together?

                    It seems kind of ridiculous to argue here over the content of the regulations when there is literally no possibility that half of our legislature will vote for it anyhow.

                    At some point you gotta look at two hundred years of extremely well documented history and recognize this system is working as intended.

                    Hmm. Yep, everything stemming from our system of government is just peachy. We don’t still have problems rippling through our culture due to slavery and civil rights issues, one political party that has sold their soul to Trump and his cronies (oh and let’s not forget how they’ve welcomed the white supremacists into their midst) and is just itching for an excuse to go full secession, unsustainable wealth inequality, a large percentage of families living paycheck to paycheck, a healthcare system that routinely makes people choose between paying for food and shelter or healthcare and medicine and etc etc etc.

                    Clearly with two hundred years of extremely well documented history of all these problems and our ineptitude and lack of will to solve many of them, we should conclude that the system is working as intended.

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  I see mass shootings and individual murder the price we pay to prevent the government from massacring civilians like they did in Myanmar recently.

                  If we really want a gun-free society we need to make sure the government doesn’t have guns. Given that’s impossible, the next best thing is letting citizens have guns.

                  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                    8 months ago

                    I hope you at least vote for candidates who support mental health initiatives. (Though that would rule out Republicans.)

                    But anyway hey, at least you are honest. (Kinda. Aside from assuming I’m pushing for gun-free just because I wish republicans would even talk about gun control.)

                    I see mass shootings and individual murder the price we pay

                    It’s the price the victims pay. You see that price, that those dead people have paid, as something that you are willing for them to pay. Let’s not mince words. It’s your value judgement that it’s worth it for them to have died. I wonder if they and their families felt it was.

              • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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                8 months ago

                Are you aware of this little place called “The entirety of Earth except 'murica” ? Gun control seems to work pretty well, there.

                • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  What does that have to do with whether Americas gun laws are intended to reduce harm or disarm different segments of the populace?

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  Well not so much in Myanmar. Or Nanking. Or Germany. Or Gaza.

                  But sure. All the places the government isn’t massacring unarmed civilian populations, gun control is working out great.

            • Mango@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              It’s as much for keeping kids safe as the kids online safety act. You think the police keep them safe? Watch out for fireworks.

          • Neato@ttrpg.network
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            8 months ago

            So just your average gun nut willing to keep stacking the corpses of children.

    • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      An armed left is like base level marxism

      And then what?

      Suppose you get falsely charged by the state because of your politics, what are you going to do? Get into armed conflict against the police officers coming to arrest you?

      Is that what Steven Donziger should have done?

      • maynarkh@feddit.nl
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        8 months ago

        It’s not like armed insurgencies don’t happen in modern countries. Look up the IRA. Even if you are not keen on blowing up billionaires, you can still shoot meal team six as they try to bring back lynching and the KKK.

        That said, disarming the country including the police, especially the police, would be more conductive to a peaceful life. So would actual democratic representation.

          • maynarkh@feddit.nl
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            8 months ago

            Yeah, and they kill them and also some others, and some guy’s wife. The guy takes up arms in revenge and the cycle continues.

            It’s not an open armed rebellion, it’s constant terror attacks. How do you send in the military to quell a car bombing or an assassination?

        • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Absolutely not, I’m all for defunding the police but if your idea of a peaceful country doesn’t involve someone owning and being willing to defend themselves with firearms you’re just living in a fantasy where crime just magically doesn’t exist.

          • maynarkh@feddit.nl
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            8 months ago

            In my part of the world, people grow up just fine without owning firearms. This whole gun worship is mostly a US thing.

            • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              In your part of the world there’s no cops, no one owns firearms, and there’s just no crime?

      • Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de
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        8 months ago

        Then you get your single shot rifle and storm the the king’s palace with it, against a bunch of people with single shot rifles, kill them all, kill a king, all his family, and thus establish a military goverment. Because it’s apparently it’s 19th century now.

        • Random_German_Name@feddit.de
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          8 months ago

          Then you get your single shot rifle and storm the the king’s palace with it, against a bunch of people with single shot rifles, kill them all, kill a king, all his family

          Sounds good

          thus establish a military goverment.

          Nah, I just defeated the military. I would prefer a less authoritarian system

          • Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de
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            8 months ago

            When you killed everyone in a coup, you are by definition a new military. You might prefer less authoritarian system now, but all your friends who are running around with rifles trying to do a coup are in it for power, it’s just how the selection process goes, for everyone bright eyed idealist who will immediately relinquish his absolute authority that he just won by fighting a civil war, there will be 10 people who fought in civil war to get this absolute authority.
            We know that, because actually I deceived you earlier, it’s not 19th century now, and we already saw how that happened. And also, both technologies and situations are different now

            • Random_German_Name@feddit.de
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              8 months ago

              When you killed everyone in a coup

              I didn‘t kill „everybody“. I killed the king, his family and his guards and maybe his ministers or generals

              you are by definition a new military

              No, I am a member of one of many militias

              all your friends who are running around with rifles trying to do a coup are in it for power

              Not all of them, but I understand what you mean

              for everyone bright eyed idealist who will immediately relinquish his absolute authority that he just won by fighting a civil war, there will be 10 people who fought in civil war to get this absolute authority.

              Yes. Thats how war works.

              both technologies and situations are different now

              Exactly

              • Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de
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                8 months ago

                I didn‘t kill „everybody“. I killed the king, his family and his guards and maybe his ministers or generals

                Not how civil wars work unfortunately

                No, I am a member of one of many militias

                Which makes you a part of the military power of the new rule. So yeah.

                Yes. Thats how war works.

                Yes. That’s my point actually.

                Exactly

                Ok, but that’s worse. You do get how that’s worse, right?

    • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The impression is that the left is the only side calling for gun control.

      Despite the most sweeping gun control implemented by Reagan, and Trumpty dumpty literally floated illegal search and seizure for firearms.

      • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        perhaps at the federal level, but California and Washington liberals have passed sweeping gun control laws that severely impinge on law abiding citizens, and the AFT under Biden criminalized brace pistols, turning millions of law abiding citizens into criminals overnight. Only a SC ruling kept them from pursuing arrest for people who legally purchased their firearms, including a full background check for their purchases.