The burning of the Islamic holy book in Denmark has stirred outrage in Muslim-majority nations. Critics of the Quran burning law say it would undermine liberal freedoms in the Scandanavian country.
Good. There’s no good reason to burn books. Free speech doesn’t require absolutism, it requires that we are capable of expressing our ideas. Yelling the N word doesn’t express an idea, it’s just offense. Ditto book burning.
People who are absolutists are pretty much always being assholes.
Different issue. I’m not debating categories of speech. I’m saying that speech that expresses no ideas but that is significantly hateful to a group of people shouldn’t be protected.
There are trade offs here: offensive speech that expresses political ideas (beyond “we hate you”) is worthwhile and should be balanced against offense it may cause. I know this isn’t a nice simple black and white answer but I think the real world isn’t nice a simple. There are shades of grey. Other countries might weigh the tradeoffs differently and that’s fine. Doesn’t make this decision wrong, just that the tradeoffs are weighed differently to your intuitions
Yeah, since you would be in the street and probably get hit by a vehicle. That would be hilarious. Please do this. Please setup a cross right in the street in front of my house to make your point and get struck by a truck.
Silly argument at the level of “I’m not touching you, I’m not touching you”. It’s not about how you choose to dispose your personal property, it’s about regulating a particular political act.
Why, is there some reason you associate Islam with violence? I can go ahead and burn a Bible, a Torah, a Mormon Bible, a copy of the Pali Canon and the most danger I am in is getting a strongly worded letter. Is Islam in some particular way different?
People keep arguing from first principles as if politics is an abstract question to be solved by correct application of moral reasoning.
I am not talking about Islam in general. I am not interested in that discussion. I am not talking about abstract ideas. I do not care for top down idealism, I care for bottom up pragmatism.
In empirical practice, in our times and in these societies that we live in, this act has consistently increased the level of animosity, has incited violence, and is specifically being used to do those things on purpose. A democratic society can decide to put reasonable limits to it to protect peace and order. The fact that it remains a democratic society means that it retains its right to undo these limits at an appropriate time if it judges them to be hurtful or useless.
Different than what? The law doesn’t single out Islam, it makes it illegal to publicly burn any religious text.
“Is Islam different”, such a weird question. As if there is one single “Islam”? And as if there is nothing unique about it, like what, are all religions interchangeable like Coca-Cola and Pepsi? This is an entirely pointless question. Unless you’re trying to tease out if I’m an extremist, either an islamophobe or an Islamist? In which case, ask your question directly, I guess?
Book burnings are bad when they are used to prevent the free sharing of information or ideas. It is a form of censorship. Burning the Quran is not censorship, because this is not an attempt to ban the Quran or prevent anyone from reading it. Its an entirely symbolic gesture. Its comparable to burning the American flag, which I’m guessing you’re not so against.
I don’t disagree but I feel like they should just ban publicly burning books for reasons other than waste disposal. I think it’s weird to make an exception for one particular religious book
Good. There’s no good reason to burn books. Free speech doesn’t require absolutism, it requires that we are capable of expressing our ideas. Yelling the N word doesn’t express an idea, it’s just offense. Ditto book burning. People who are absolutists are pretty much always being assholes.
Blasphemy and racism are two very different things.
Blasphemy is a human right.
Besides, there are already laws against hate speech.
Different issue. I’m not debating categories of speech. I’m saying that speech that expresses no ideas but that is significantly hateful to a group of people shouldn’t be protected. There are trade offs here: offensive speech that expresses political ideas (beyond “we hate you”) is worthwhile and should be balanced against offense it may cause. I know this isn’t a nice simple black and white answer but I think the real world isn’t nice a simple. There are shades of grey. Other countries might weigh the tradeoffs differently and that’s fine. Doesn’t make this decision wrong, just that the tradeoffs are weighed differently to your intuitions
That’s a nice word salad to say you support blasphemy laws.
I am sorry you are overally sensitive to your skydaddy being insulted
Burning other people’s books is of course bad. Burning your own books? Idk man, you bought it.
If I build my own cross and burn it in front of your house, that’s cool then? I don’t think it’s quite as simple as you imply
Like I said in the other comment, the ban isn’t on instigating, it’s on burning a book. Also idgaf about the cross
Yeah, since you would be in the street and probably get hit by a vehicle. That would be hilarious. Please do this. Please setup a cross right in the street in front of my house to make your point and get struck by a truck.
Silly argument at the level of “I’m not touching you, I’m not touching you”. It’s not about how you choose to dispose your personal property, it’s about regulating a particular political act.
The ban isn’t on inciting violence, it’s on burning a book.
Burning the quran is functionally incitement to violence.
As a free speech advocate I will claim your post is an incitement to violence and therefore you should be arrested.
Cool, you have every right to do so, but a court woukd likely find that a reasonable person would not consider that comment to be inciting violence.
I wasn’t aware that Chamberlain was a judge
Yeah keep stalking my account and reply to every single comment. That will show how well adjusted and sane you are.
Sure. Call back when this is regularly a source of widespread social disturbance.
Infidels should be praised
Why, is there some reason you associate Islam with violence? I can go ahead and burn a Bible, a Torah, a Mormon Bible, a copy of the Pali Canon and the most danger I am in is getting a strongly worded letter. Is Islam in some particular way different?
People keep arguing from first principles as if politics is an abstract question to be solved by correct application of moral reasoning.
I am not talking about Islam in general. I am not interested in that discussion. I am not talking about abstract ideas. I do not care for top down idealism, I care for bottom up pragmatism.
In empirical practice, in our times and in these societies that we live in, this act has consistently increased the level of animosity, has incited violence, and is specifically being used to do those things on purpose. A democratic society can decide to put reasonable limits to it to protect peace and order. The fact that it remains a democratic society means that it retains its right to undo these limits at an appropriate time if it judges them to be hurtful or useless.
Trust democracy.
Different than what? The law doesn’t single out Islam, it makes it illegal to publicly burn any religious text.
“Is Islam different”, such a weird question. As if there is one single “Islam”? And as if there is nothing unique about it, like what, are all religions interchangeable like Coca-Cola and Pepsi? This is an entirely pointless question. Unless you’re trying to tease out if I’m an extremist, either an islamophobe or an Islamist? In which case, ask your question directly, I guess?
Book burnings are bad when they are used to prevent the free sharing of information or ideas. It is a form of censorship. Burning the Quran is not censorship, because this is not an attempt to ban the Quran or prevent anyone from reading it. Its an entirely symbolic gesture. Its comparable to burning the American flag, which I’m guessing you’re not so against.
And what does it symbolise?..
That religion is dogshit and appeasement is cowardly.
Appease these nuts 🤣
Burning religious texts isn’t far off burning crosses. It’s stochastic terrorism
Citation needed
I absolutely agree.
I don’t disagree but I feel like they should just ban publicly burning books for reasons other than waste disposal. I think it’s weird to make an exception for one particular religious book
They didn’t. It’s for all religious texts
Burning religious texts makes skydaddy sad?
You seem determined to be a dick and not bother to understand what people are saying. I don’t see the point, but you do you