Someone posted a meme making fun of people saying two things can be bad, implying one side (Russia) isn’t really bad. Someone replies that the overt nazi stuff putin says is pretty bad.
You reply with whatabout Ukraine nazis.
Either you are agreeing with the point that two things can be bad at the same time, or saying that one side doing nazi stuff is fine, actually because the other side does as well. Which is it?
I don’t doubt that the Ukrainian army is full nazis and fascists. I also don’t doubt that the Russian army is full of nazbols and fascists. Armies tend to attract those sorts.
I wouldn’t really know, but I would not imagine that Ukraine is a progressive country. Outside of the liberal enclaves of the bigger cities, I imagine it’s pretty bad actually. But here’s my surface level view.
Russia:
has invaded a neighbouring sovereign country,
puts people in prison for being openly gay,
has banned legal and healthcare provision for trans people, and
openly declares to the world stage that it is fighting a rearguard action against western degeneracy in favour of Christian family values.
(Admittedly I do not speak Russian and I can’t speak to what is translated as degeneracy or satanism or what-have-you, but no one has credibly disputed that this is the essence of what Russian ministers are saying on camera.)
Ukraine:
has not invaded any of its neighbours recently,
has, on paper at least, legal protections for LGBT people, and
is still signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights.
Regardless of the specific iconography that the less pleasant members of its citizenry choose to display their chuddery, one of the countries is prima facie more nazi than the other in its behaviour at this moment in time. And it’s going to take a lot more than “hurr durr imperialist propaganda” to convince me that it’s Ukraine, given those bare facts.
What about when Ukrainian is are using overt Nazi symbols?
I want to outline what just happened here.
Someone posted a meme making fun of people saying two things can be bad, implying one side (Russia) isn’t really bad. Someone replies that the overt nazi stuff putin says is pretty bad.
You reply with whatabout Ukraine nazis.
Either you are agreeing with the point that two things can be bad at the same time, or saying that one side doing nazi stuff is fine, actually because the other side does as well. Which is it?
I want to engage in aggressive strawmanning*
I don’t doubt that the Ukrainian army is full nazis and fascists. I also don’t doubt that the Russian army is full of nazbols and fascists. Armies tend to attract those sorts.
I wouldn’t really know, but I would not imagine that Ukraine is a progressive country. Outside of the liberal enclaves of the bigger cities, I imagine it’s pretty bad actually. But here’s my surface level view.
Russia:
Ukraine:
Regardless of the specific iconography that the less pleasant members of its citizenry choose to display their chuddery, one of the countries is prima facie more nazi than the other in its behaviour at this moment in time. And it’s going to take a lot more than “hurr durr imperialist propaganda” to convince me that it’s Ukraine, given those bare facts.
So much for “I just can’t help believe that maybe I shouldn’t be on their side” when it comes to Nazis…
Ukraine:
Has been engaged in ethnic cleansing since 2014
A pretty big one to leave out
They’re not invading Russia other than a small little portion a few years after the war started.
Those Nazi battalions would be far less defensible if Russia didn’t pose a credible military threat to Ukraine.
I would say that Nazis are always indefensible.
Yes we all know history started in 2022
Yes, we all know history ended in 1991
I was very clearly (I felt) referencing the context from 1990-2022 that you had left out of your caping for and downplaying of the Nazis in Ukraine.