I mean, I have to say, so far in the running she seems to be the one that’s at least trying to gather support from the left of the party, rather than distancing herself as far from us as possible. With the current leaders like Gavin Newsome, who’s desperately trying to throw us under the bus, backing the billionares, and harris who’s feeling that her 2024 failure was because she was too far left.
So yeah she’s a flawed candidate, but so far I haven’t seen a better option yet.
You need to build coalitions to be voted in, in American politics. I would love to vote for a candidate that is willing to build those coalitions with the actual left rather than salivate over guilty Trump voters. Or verbally fellate right wing personalities while they dunk on you over and over. Like seriously fuck Gavin Newsome.
I might even be excited and motivated by an AOC campaign.
What’s actually terrible? Guilty Trump voters love Leftist politics when we speak plain fucking English instead of Hundred-Year-Old Marx-textbook-speech.
Remember when Bernie went to a town hall on Fox News? I promise, you can do that too. Just don’t be a raging asshole in the moment, maybe start by going off on how disingenuous Liberals are for about 5 minutes, and explain that “no socialist thinks that word means what you’ve been told it means.”
It isn’t as hard as we make it. The Right Wing, to some extent, ALWAYS wins hardest by pretending to be us. Its time to have some hard, adult conversations with our coworkers, neighbors, family, etc.
In response to the “100 year old language” I do think it’s important to not use terminology that is predefined in people’s heads to be “bad” when communicating policy. We don’t have to do that to with “public owned grocery stores” for example. A lot of leftist terminology is only know by people through the definitions given by liberalism.
But, when critics inevitably start saying “that’s Marxist!” its very very important that a politician doesn’t try and say “no, it’s not. <Blah blah here is why I love small business>”.
Instead, the defense to that should always be a clear and simple “I don’t care what you call it. If having affordable groceries is ‘Marxist’ to you then ok” Leave it there. I absolutely hate hate hate when politicians put themselves on defense for no reason. They are afraid of the labels from the right and should not be.
Doing this form of agreement as a defense literally makes their “It’s Marxist” attack help leftist politics in the long term. You don’t have to take the labels of the left as an attack. They are only that way if you accept their definitions. Every time people hear “I guess <good policy X> is Marxist” it is literally helping to correct the lies about socialism in their heads.
The long term consequences of this will actually be that we are allowed to use the language of working class struggle to describe things. It’s not really that it’s “100 year old language” for why it’s bad for communicating right now. It’s that for over 100 years it has been allowed to be defined by liberals.
So, you’re right, in the short term. But the goal isn’t to “not use that language”. The goal is gradually remove the predefined ideas of what leftist terms mean (as defined by liberals) and show what they actually result in; through actual policy that helps people.
We will handicap ourselves in the long run if we are constantly trying to pretend that we have to dissociate ourselves from Marxist vocabulary. It doesn’t have to be the center of our communication right now. But running from it when it comes up (and it will) is even worse.
That’s the conclusion you made from my comment? Like, what do you think I’m talking about here?
Like, at most, you could ask for clarification on what “bad” things I mean here. I could definitely explain that better here.
But, damn, what a jump to a conclusion you made. Especially given the context that the rest of my comment was literally about the importance of NOT being afraid of the language of “the left”.
Maybe my comment wasn’t directed at you? Maybe I was trying to explain something to someone with the opposite belief of you and I?
Sure, fundamentally people who engage with a right wing version of a populist message are still looking for the same things. But where the separation happens is how these groups deal with negative externalities.
A random person who is part of a right wing coalition in the US will burn down everything good to ensure that someone they don’t like doesn’t get even a taste of a good life. Then you just have convince them who that enemy is. Compassion is a true weakness when the person you are compassionate for isn’t you in a mirror.
I’m not saying you don’t reach out with a message, I’m saying don’t be fooled into thinking people who agree with making a living wage and universal Healthcare agree with EVERYONE making a living wage and having Healthcare. In fact they would rather not have it if it means you also get it.
I really have to disagree with that last part. Or, at least in the way you’re framing it as unchangeable.
It is looking at the world from the perspective of idealism. Meaning that the people that you say “would rather not have something if it means someone they hate also gets it”
You’re starting with that “thought” as being the origin of what makes the world the way it is. That there are just some people that think that way. So there is nothing to be done for that.
It’s, in a similar way, how right wingers think about homeless people. That there are just some people that choose to be homeless. That it is unchangeable through changes to our systems or structures or education. They point to the one guy that says “I want to live here” to justify it as unchangeable and unsolvable.
Now, are people that “think that way” able to have their minds changed? Maybe not all. Maybe not most. I’d agree that it’s likely a waste of time to work on changing the minds of those people directly.
What I am talking about is what are the ideas and material circumstances that lead people to becoming that way? Their type of believe is antihuman. It’s antisocial. It’s even harmful to themselves. How can we prevent people growing up today from becoming people that think that way. THAT is what’s important in understanding.
So, I guess I’ll just ask you what you think. What makes people believe that harming themselves is good as long as it harms another group MORE? Racism, sexism, etc. Yes. But you and I both know those are all lies they believe. Lies about gender. Lies about race. What is something that is true in their belief that they use those lies to answer?
I’d agree that it’s likely a waste of time to work on changing the minds of those people directly.
Now add the urgency factor. They are fucking with us right now, and that will only get worse until we stop them. That’s a power issue, not a matter of judicious application of sweet reason.
Not sure what point you’re making in the context of what you quoted. You’re replying to a comment that was written to try and help someone with a specific belief (“people are just like that”) and get them to attempt to think of the material factors that caused that belief.
My point was that “people just think that way” is a self defeating perspective. I believe that we CAN defeat and prevent harmful ideas that are rooted (not in the mind alone) but influenced and accepted because of material causes.
So, I can’t really tell what you mean. Are you saying that trying to “convince” them is unfruitful? If so, I agree. Someone is often very times unable to simply change their beliefs through the introduction of well explained reason.
But, that was going to be my conclusion. I was attempting to baby step them there. That people are not quickly moved through ideas. The masses are moved through the material conditions that govern those ideas.
A young adult able to afford rent and to live is less likely to join the military and bomb brown children. A young adult that doesn’t have to work 7 days a week for multiple jobs is less likely to believe ideas of white supremacy that promise them comforting lies.
People aren’t “just like that”. There are very real and very quickly changeable conditions that influence someone’s probability of being “like that”.
Sorry. A rant. But since you replied I wanted to at least get to the conclusion I was trying to reach in conversation.
Ahh idealism, I remember that shit. I think people suck at a fundamental level, only humans are capable of being anti human, and they do it frequently. You want a rational answer to an irrational response, the answer is that it doesn’t matter. Spin your wheels trying to dig turds out of a toilet.
Just a downvote and no response? I’m ok with a misunderstanding mate. I honestly thought I was a good conversation to have and liked your initial comment. But, damn, you confuse the meaning of a word I used and give a snarky reply you’re gonna get one in return.
What you are doing is “Idealism” literally in your response. Here, I’ll help you out, because you seem to be confused.
Idealism is a philosophical approach that prioritizes mind, spirit, or consciousness as the primary reality, asserting that material things exist only as perceptions or mental constructs
You asserted that “people are just that way”. You are an Idealist. You think that these people come to these beliefs first through their mind. Not through their lived experiences.
I think you are confusing “Idealism” with someone being “idealistic”. Because your response really sounds like you have no idea what I was talking about.
I mean, I have to say, so far in the running she seems to be the one that’s at least trying to gather support from the left of the party, rather than distancing herself as far from us as possible. With the current leaders like Gavin Newsome, who’s desperately trying to throw us under the bus, backing the billionares, and harris who’s feeling that her 2024 failure was because she was too far left.
So yeah she’s a flawed candidate, but so far I haven’t seen a better option yet.
Wait, what has Harris actually doing/saying? I haven’t seen much about her policies and plans since she lost.
You need to build coalitions to be voted in, in American politics. I would love to vote for a candidate that is willing to build those coalitions with the actual left rather than salivate over guilty Trump voters. Or verbally fellate right wing personalities while they dunk on you over and over. Like seriously fuck Gavin Newsome.
I might even be excited and motivated by an AOC campaign.
What’s actually terrible? Guilty Trump voters love Leftist politics when we speak plain fucking English instead of Hundred-Year-Old Marx-textbook-speech.
Remember when Bernie went to a town hall on Fox News? I promise, you can do that too. Just don’t be a raging asshole in the moment, maybe start by going off on how disingenuous Liberals are for about 5 minutes, and explain that “no socialist thinks that word means what you’ve been told it means.”
It isn’t as hard as we make it. The Right Wing, to some extent, ALWAYS wins hardest by pretending to be us. Its time to have some hard, adult conversations with our coworkers, neighbors, family, etc.
In response to the “100 year old language” I do think it’s important to not use terminology that is predefined in people’s heads to be “bad” when communicating policy. We don’t have to do that to with “public owned grocery stores” for example. A lot of leftist terminology is only know by people through the definitions given by liberalism.
But, when critics inevitably start saying “that’s Marxist!” its very very important that a politician doesn’t try and say “no, it’s not. <Blah blah here is why I love small business>”.
Instead, the defense to that should always be a clear and simple “I don’t care what you call it. If having affordable groceries is ‘Marxist’ to you then ok” Leave it there. I absolutely hate hate hate when politicians put themselves on defense for no reason. They are afraid of the labels from the right and should not be.
Doing this form of agreement as a defense literally makes their “It’s Marxist” attack help leftist politics in the long term. You don’t have to take the labels of the left as an attack. They are only that way if you accept their definitions. Every time people hear “I guess <good policy X> is Marxist” it is literally helping to correct the lies about socialism in their heads.
The long term consequences of this will actually be that we are allowed to use the language of working class struggle to describe things. It’s not really that it’s “100 year old language” for why it’s bad for communicating right now. It’s that for over 100 years it has been allowed to be defined by liberals.
So, you’re right, in the short term. But the goal isn’t to “not use that language”. The goal is gradually remove the predefined ideas of what leftist terms mean (as defined by liberals) and show what they actually result in; through actual policy that helps people.
We will handicap ourselves in the long run if we are constantly trying to pretend that we have to dissociate ourselves from Marxist vocabulary. It doesn’t have to be the center of our communication right now. But running from it when it comes up (and it will) is even worse.
Then you surrender to the opposition’s framing and end up in semantic contortions because you don’t stand your ground.
That’s the conclusion you made from my comment? Like, what do you think I’m talking about here?
Like, at most, you could ask for clarification on what “bad” things I mean here. I could definitely explain that better here.
But, damn, what a jump to a conclusion you made. Especially given the context that the rest of my comment was literally about the importance of NOT being afraid of the language of “the left”.
Maybe my comment wasn’t directed at you? Maybe I was trying to explain something to someone with the opposite belief of you and I?
Sure, fundamentally people who engage with a right wing version of a populist message are still looking for the same things. But where the separation happens is how these groups deal with negative externalities.
A random person who is part of a right wing coalition in the US will burn down everything good to ensure that someone they don’t like doesn’t get even a taste of a good life. Then you just have convince them who that enemy is. Compassion is a true weakness when the person you are compassionate for isn’t you in a mirror.
I’m not saying you don’t reach out with a message, I’m saying don’t be fooled into thinking people who agree with making a living wage and universal Healthcare agree with EVERYONE making a living wage and having Healthcare. In fact they would rather not have it if it means you also get it.
I really have to disagree with that last part. Or, at least in the way you’re framing it as unchangeable.
It is looking at the world from the perspective of idealism. Meaning that the people that you say “would rather not have something if it means someone they hate also gets it”
You’re starting with that “thought” as being the origin of what makes the world the way it is. That there are just some people that think that way. So there is nothing to be done for that.
It’s, in a similar way, how right wingers think about homeless people. That there are just some people that choose to be homeless. That it is unchangeable through changes to our systems or structures or education. They point to the one guy that says “I want to live here” to justify it as unchangeable and unsolvable.
Now, are people that “think that way” able to have their minds changed? Maybe not all. Maybe not most. I’d agree that it’s likely a waste of time to work on changing the minds of those people directly.
What I am talking about is what are the ideas and material circumstances that lead people to becoming that way? Their type of believe is antihuman. It’s antisocial. It’s even harmful to themselves. How can we prevent people growing up today from becoming people that think that way. THAT is what’s important in understanding.
So, I guess I’ll just ask you what you think. What makes people believe that harming themselves is good as long as it harms another group MORE? Racism, sexism, etc. Yes. But you and I both know those are all lies they believe. Lies about gender. Lies about race. What is something that is true in their belief that they use those lies to answer?
Now add the urgency factor. They are fucking with us right now, and that will only get worse until we stop them. That’s a power issue, not a matter of judicious application of sweet reason.
Not sure what point you’re making in the context of what you quoted. You’re replying to a comment that was written to try and help someone with a specific belief (“people are just like that”) and get them to attempt to think of the material factors that caused that belief.
My point was that “people just think that way” is a self defeating perspective. I believe that we CAN defeat and prevent harmful ideas that are rooted (not in the mind alone) but influenced and accepted because of material causes.
So, I can’t really tell what you mean. Are you saying that trying to “convince” them is unfruitful? If so, I agree. Someone is often very times unable to simply change their beliefs through the introduction of well explained reason.
But, that was going to be my conclusion. I was attempting to baby step them there. That people are not quickly moved through ideas. The masses are moved through the material conditions that govern those ideas.
A young adult able to afford rent and to live is less likely to join the military and bomb brown children. A young adult that doesn’t have to work 7 days a week for multiple jobs is less likely to believe ideas of white supremacy that promise them comforting lies.
People aren’t “just like that”. There are very real and very quickly changeable conditions that influence someone’s probability of being “like that”.
Sorry. A rant. But since you replied I wanted to at least get to the conclusion I was trying to reach in conversation.
Ahh idealism, I remember that shit. I think people suck at a fundamental level, only humans are capable of being anti human, and they do it frequently. You want a rational answer to an irrational response, the answer is that it doesn’t matter. Spin your wheels trying to dig turds out of a toilet.
Just a downvote and no response? I’m ok with a misunderstanding mate. I honestly thought I was a good conversation to have and liked your initial comment. But, damn, you confuse the meaning of a word I used and give a snarky reply you’re gonna get one in return.
I didn’t downvoted any of your comments, I’m just done with thy convo, that was my last piece.
What you are doing is “Idealism” literally in your response. Here, I’ll help you out, because you seem to be confused.
You asserted that “people are just that way”. You are an Idealist. You think that these people come to these beliefs first through their mind. Not through their lived experiences.
I think you are confusing “Idealism” with someone being “idealistic”. Because your response really sounds like you have no idea what I was talking about.
if we see anyone as better than a “flawed candidate”, we need to take off the rose colored glasses. good at keeping your head on straight.
There’s never going to be a flawless candidate. If that bothers people then they should work on building non-representative forms of politics.