The more you know, and the better something is presented in ways of your understanding and feeling, the better the effect.
I’d argue that a movie could be crafted in two ways (and even more). Could you feel sorry for both parties, if you watched them both?
I’ve seen comments like “Yeah I know X is bad, but I’m confused should I feel bad for them or not” before.You can spend your life learning from all kinds of directions and still have it throttle your heart some days.
I know just enough about war to know I never want to be within a hundred miles of a war zone.
US just haven’t suffered any big wars on their soil for too long and lost the touch of true misery replacing it with trans issues and shit.
not since the civil war, and that was half-assed because the confederates were allowed to exists even then.
R/combatfootage is where I sent the blow hards yelling for a US civil war last year.
And if we do war, the first to go are the young and poor.
When the allies invaded France in 1944, the first thing they did was move through the nearest towns and shoot anyone they saw. They had to establish a defendable position and had no time to identify whether someone was a French civilian, resistance member or a German.
Born in Normandy, where we were taught about wwii inside and outside of school a whole lot, having grand parents in the resistance. I have never ever heard that.
A lot of the grey areas were suppressed. Because it was a war of goodies v baddies and that was that. In reality war is always baddies v baddies with civilians caught in the crossfire.
That’s quite the claim. Do you have a source for that?
From recorded interviews with one of the British soldiers, as featured in the BBC documentary D-Day: The Unheard Tapes.
Thanks!
I have a brother who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, and while he’s always been an absolute chud, it was a very radicalizing experience. He came back with PTSD and then started “self-medicating” with meth. He made our family’s lives a living hell, like we were 24/7 911 operators, always waiting for the day he was going to act on his paranoid delusions. He finally went out to some innocent family’s house with a gun and pulled on the cops who’d followed him and got shot in the arm. He’s recovered somewhat, but still has relapses.
These experiences are the most traumatic thing that has ever happened to me or any of my family. Still it pales in comparison to what he experienced, which in turn pales in comparison to what the people living in those countries experienced. My dumbass brother chose to go over there, but they didn’t choose to be born there, and the casualty rates were so much higher for them.
People look at casualty rates (if they bother to) and imagine that that’s the full price of war. But my brother isn’t on any of those casualty lists, because his wounds were “only” psychological. The true scale of harm is literally incomprehensible.
I remember one night that I had come to visit and I went out to eat with my parents, thinking, hoping, that for one night things could be peaceful. Then the texts started coming in. Another crisis, more schizophrenic accusations, veiled threats, reading into every little thing. I remember the tears streaming down my mother’s face as she tried not to make a scene at the restaurant.
Whenever I think about any of the people responsible for those wars, I take what I felt in that moment and multiply by a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, by as much as I’m capable of, and it’s still not enough.
The government and media do such a good job sheltering the public from what war really means. So many people just treat it like a movie or a video game because they know that more than they know about reality. The media rarely covers the human cost, especially of the other side. And so when I come on to Lemmy and vent about how war is bad and we should build schools and hospitals instead of tanks and bombs, people call me a tankie and accuse me of having some secret agenda. Because real life action movies are so cool, who could possibly have a problem with them?
Calling for schools and healthcare instead of tanks and bombs is not tankie crap. Tankies want the other side to have tanks, instead of the US.
Eww.
There’s no faster way to get called a tankie than opposing the construction of more tanks.
Opposing the construction of more tanks necessarily means arguing that those tanks are unnecessary. Arguing that tanks are unnecessary means arguing that the supposed threats our rulers want us to be afraid of are not as significant as they’d have us believe. And if you’re arguing that an “enemy” country is not as much of a threat as our rulers claim, then it’s trivial for someone to accuse you of minimizing the threat because you actually support the enemy.
This is how it’s always been. I opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from the start. Back then, instead of “tankie” they called you “terrorist sympathizer.” People who opposed the wars in Vietnam and Korea were called “reds” or “pinkos.” Those who opposed WWI were accused of being “Bolsheviks.” Some dude once criticized Rome’s violence and was accused of plotting violent insurrection and got executed for it. Same shit, different day.
I think it’s your defense of China that’s getting you called a tankie.
I don’t want to go to war with any country. I am also willing to refute misinformation about any country. Those two things constitute 99% of what “defending” means in this context.
Why limit yourself to China? Just say, “In North Korea the government forces everyone to eat each other’s brains and we need to invade to get them to stop,” I’ll say that’s not true and we shouldn’t, and now you can attack me for “defending North Korea.” Surely there’s worse countries than China out there for you to pick from.
Regardless of political labels and what makes them accurate, you’re right about war being bad
I guess I’m a tankie then. Fuck the wars, fuck this administration, we need education and healthcare more than anything. We need a government that supports its own people rather than trying to obliterate all others.
If you don’t go to war, war will go to you. It’s a terrible thing you can’t escape or avoid. You can’t protest your way out of it, and someone must do it.
You will just be tortured and murdered without resistance, or find yourself in an even worse war.
Fascism must be stopped.
“We have to fight them over there or we’ll be fighting them over here.” I remember that line. They said about the wars in the Middle East, they said it about Vietnam, they said it about Korea. “If we don’t win, there’ll be a 9/11 every day.” But we lost, and somehow there hasn’t been another 9/11. “Vietnam is a domino, if we don’t stop them here, they’ll spread communism to more and more countries.” But we didn’t stop them there and they focused on rebuilding and self-defense.
Every major conflict the US has been involved in since WWII, top officials have evoke WWII and the Nazis. Many of those conflicts were wars of aggression, often seeking to prop up fascists.
If the US military was actually about defense, it could easily be cut in half. We’d still be spending more on it than any other country in the world. The US spends more than the next 9 countries combined and it is the fascist threat that other countries have to defend against.
Yes, sometimes the only way to solve a problem is through force. But it’s also true that when you have this massive hammer, everything looks like a nail. We have this whole industry built off that profits from war and needs a constant state of war (or at least threats) to justify its existence, and if there aren’t any threats, they’ll create them.
Once all the people involved in the previous unjustified wars is in prison, then if the people who threw them in prison want me to believe that there’s a genuine threat, I’ll consider it. But I will never support US military involvement in any conflict until that time, regardless of circumstances.
Preach brother. I agree sometimes things need to happen by force, but it’s far and few between. This war was a joke to distract from Epstein child trafficking bullshit.
This war was a joke to distract from Epstein child trafficking bullshit.
also insider trading of the trump family about oil and arms companies
Forgot to mention I’m not form the US, so my opinion is war AGAINST the US. But starting with Embargo first, then retaliating with maximum force if the US were to try and break the Embargo or attack in any way.
When the Germans invaded my country in 1940, someone in the street I currently live in was standing behind the window, looking at the approaching soldiers. (I live real close to the border). The Germans, upon seeing him, shot him and he died right there. There’s no memorial, no history book where this guy is mentioned. I only know about this through oral history, my grandfather told my dad and he told me. History is always about the leaders and the armies, never about the civilians.
“You people of the South don’t know what you are doing! This country will be drenched in blood and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war, you don’t know what you’re talking about. War is a terrible thing!”
An oddly prescient quote for our time, I would say.
Unfortunately, the “people of the South” (their leaders, at least) were fighting to preserve slavery, so “a terrible thing” was hardly a deal-breaker for them.
I’m a veteran with combat experience and people look at me like i’m a crazy person when I advocate against wars. It’s really hard to get people to realize that someone who’s been to war (and isn’t a psychopath) doesn’t want anyone to have to go to war. It breaks everything and everyone.
oh yea, remember that vet that tried to become a DEM/dnc he was against the wars(bush), he was mostly ousted and prevented from running
Who would know better than you? I hope they start listening.
people look at me like i’m a crazy person when I advocate against wars
You might consider finding new friends.
Thank you for doing something I couldn’t.
username… checks out?
We don’t get a choice man. Going to bomb Iran is dumb, but you need to always be prepared for more war.
that’s like saying, one day you might need surgery because of some disease, so we should cut you open today, just in case.
This is why the US ditched the draft after the Vietnam War.
The only time we ever had a meaningful anti-war movement was when people were forced to send their own kids to die. Having a “volunteer” force eliminates that. The excuse is always that people signed up for it, and people just ignore that it’s the poor and minorities who are still effectively pressed into military duty due to manufactured lack of opportunity.
The excuse is always that people signed up for it
not on the other side though
Not with wars fought the Israeli way. Fair point.
keeping college education and health care expensive is used as motivation for young people to enlist despite lack of conscription, as they see their only opportunity to have those fees waived
The draft wasn’t ditched. The selective service has been active for decades, it isn’t supposed to be left active unless somebody is going to use the draft.
Incorrect.
That it is still a law on the books does not make it ‘active’. There is a law here in Kansas City that still bans automobiles on Main St., but I wouldn’t call it ‘active’, and nor should anyone else.
It was ditched, and with good reason. (At least for the the Epstein Class.)
You are required to sign up for the selective service as a penis haver at 18 so I genuinely have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
as a penis haver
Thank you for correctly gendering myself and many others 🥲
Clearly.
I would recommend you go look up the word ‘effective’. That will help with your confusion. Good day to you.
hold up. you’re telling me all the movies from the past century that showed war were lying to me??!
/s
there’s a reason why Vietnam was both the most televized and most protested war in American history.
Want to read some good war books that will leave you thoroughly depressed?
Enemy At The Gates: The Battle For Stalingrad by William Craig
And
Hue 1968: A Turning Point of the American War in Vietnam by Mark Bowden
While they cover older wars the damage is the same to civilians. They’re worth the read just to see that war is hell. EATG gives a lot of insight about what happened to the Germans in Russia after the war, too.
Americans aren’t keen on reading history. It’s partly how we ended up electing a man who paid smarter people to write his term papers.
Can’t say we’re particularly keen on empathy either.
Call of duty is actually a bad thing. It gamifies war and doesn’t mention the true horrors.
