• Madison420@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    2 days ago

    No they aren’t, Russia wouldn’t have purchased thousands of Iranian drones if they could produce them domestically.

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            2 days ago

            No Russia put out propaganda and cnn puts whatever will get clicks and views out regardless of how truthful or well vetted it is.

            Are you seriously going to argue cnn is a credible wholely truthful news source at point? Really?

            • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              18
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              No they aren’t, Russia wouldn’t have purchased thousands of Iranian drones if they could produce them domestically.

              […]

              Russia put out propaganda

              The original link in this post is to an article by the Associated Press (syndicated on a website owned by Bell Canada) and it cites “U.S. and European officials” as its primary source to support the claim made in the headline that Russia is supplying drones to Iran.

              I’m curious: did you call this Russian propaganda after reading only the headline, without actually realizing who is saying what here?

              Correct me if I’m wrong but I suspect that after you read the article and see that Russia in fact denies sending drones to Iran (and says the seven trucks they just sent have food and medical supplies) you’ll probably change your mind and decide that they probably are in fact sending drones.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                12
                ·
                2 days ago

                Yes and they’re going by Russian propaganda and surely you aren’t implying us intelligence hasnt ever been wrong, correct? Like I dunno wmds in Iraq, Afghanistan or currently in Iran.

                Of course Russia denys it, the point is to back an ally with the claim they’re helping which makes Russia a credible war target which would involve actual nukes. They’re just stiring the pot and informed people shouldn’t buy their bullshit regardless of whatever political factionism is involved.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                edit-2
                2 days ago

                No they put out wherever gets clicks, it doesn’t particularly matter what it is there’s just less that goes against the regime because they don’t want to get sued by the toddler.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 days ago

                  CNN is owned by capitalists, and thus puts out what these capitalists want to be put out. CNN is absolutely biased in these capitalist’s favor.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              CNN is certainly more credible than a random troll from lemmy.world, and if you spend 5 minutes googling you’ll find plenty of sources about this factory. Your dedication to making a clown of yourself here is truly remarkable.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              edit-2
              2 days ago

              After their spotty coverage in Gaza, how can you possibly believe CNN puts out “whatever will get clicks and views”?

      • CyberMonkey403@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 day ago

        I don’t buy it. Not with drone alerts reaching friggin Perm. Weren’t you yourself saying the war would end after the failed “counteroffensive”?

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 day ago

          I was, but the fact that Russia isn’t doing big offensives doesn’t mean they’re struggling either. I expected there was a good chance the AFU could collapse, but they held things together. And drone warfare now makes it much more costly to do large scale offensives, so it settled into attrition. Now that the war in Iran has started, there’s going to be far less attention put towards Ukraine as well. Which is a good reason for Russia to provide aid to Iran all of itself.

  • sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    3 days ago

    Its a really confusing world we’re living in.

    I don’t super US/Israel so I am happy Iran with Russia’s help is able to inflict pain on them. Happy to see US getting weaker.

    But I also don’t support Russia/Iran both have horrible regime so I don’t want to see them victorious.

    I supported Ukraine initially because Russia is a bully but Ukraine supports Israel which is a worse bully.

    I don’t know who to support and who to be against any more

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      2 days ago

      This is why Marxists always and without fail return to imperialism as the primary contradiction in the world at the present moment, between the old and falling unipolar world and the rising multipolar world and the end of imperialism. Capitalism, when it reaches a certain level of development, has a compulsion towards outside expansion, which creates its own antagonism from countries that wish to remain sovereign.

      Right now, the US Empire is the dying hegemonic power. There are no competing empires, just an international imperialist alliance that formed after World War II, when the US Empire vassalized the other imperialist powers. Iran and Russia are sovereign countries, and as such have been butting heads with the west, which wishes to imperialize them. Ukraine and Israel are so close together because they share a similar geopolitical position, as attack dogs for the US Empire against their adversaries.

      Without an understanding of how capitalism turns to imperialism, under what conditions, and how this can itself be negated, then it’s understandable that it would be difficult to understand the world. I really recommend reading Lenin’s Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism. Imperialism has evolved since his time, namely from competing imperialist powers into a single imperial hegemon and vassalized imperialist powers, but the basis is still correct and necessary for understanding the modern era.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      2 days ago

      You would have really struggled with World War 2. “Britian and France both have horrible regimes, so I’d hate to see them victorious!”

    • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      3 days ago

      The fact that you have worse words for Iran while Israel is committing a full scale genocide is pretty telling.

      • sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        18
        ·
        3 days ago

        Russia also committed war crimes. both Natanyahu and Valadmir are officially war criminals so what’s your point?

        Israel is committing Genocide yes. Iran killed thousands of Syrians opposing Asad regime and even killed thousands of Iranians opposing khumeni.

        The discussion of “who is more criminal” or which killing is Genocide and which is just “mass killing” is pointless to me.

        • mrdown@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          Hizbollah fought the armed groups who oppose the butcher Assad because their weapons used to defend against israeli occupation passed for Syria

    • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      3 days ago

      Need to support Iran and Russia critically at bare minimum. They are the ones resisting imperialism.

      • hoch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        2 days ago

        This might be the most braindead comment I’ve read on Lemmy.

        Wow.

      • apftwb@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        Russia is not “resisting imperialism”. It is currently stuck in its own imperialistic quagmire with Ukraine.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          That’s not really what they mean by imperialism. When Marxists speak of “imperialism,” we mean the existing system of international extraction helmed by the US and its vassal states. Imperialism in the Marxist sense is economically compelled by late-stage capitalism, and is its necessary evolution, into a highly financialized system of plunder from the global south.

          Russia and Iran are both sovereign countries working against this system, because both stand to gain from a multi-polar world. Ukraine and Israel are so close together because they share a similar geopolitical position, as attack dogs for the US Empire against their adversaries.

          Without an understanding of how capitalism turns to imperialism, under what conditions, and how this can itself be negated, then it’s understandable that it would be difficult to understand the world. I really recommend reading Lenin’s Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism. Imperialism has evolved since his time, namely from competing imperialist powers into a single imperial hegemon and vassalized imperialist powers, but the basis is still correct and necessary for understanding the modern era.

      • mrdown@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        2 days ago

        Iran resist imperialism. Russia do not and only help Iran because thry share the same enemy the united snakes

          • mrdown@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            2 days ago

            imperialist russia fighting a worse imperialist power called the united states

            • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              15
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              2 days ago

              You call Russia imperialist. Materially, it is not. Imperialism requires export of capital, enforced unequal exchange, subordinated peripheral economies to a core. Russia does not command the IMF. It does not control SWIFT. It does not own global platforms or academic gatekeeping. It is an oligarchic kleptocracy with regional ambitions and security concerns. Conflating it with US hegemony serves Western propaganda.

              Also it’s not just the US it’s the imperial core as a whole: Europe, NATO, Five eyes and their vassals like the ROK and Japan.

      • encelado748@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        3 days ago

        The biggest country in the world military conquering his neighbors is imperialism. The only reasonable things to do is supporting Ukraine against Russia, and Iran against US and Israel.

        The US is helping Russia against Ukraine despite Russia helping Iran against US. (Lifting sanctions to Russia, raising oil prices financing Russia, withdraw military and financial support from Ukraine)

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          Ukraine and Israel are used in similar ways by the US Empire, to attack their geopolitical opponents. Russia seeking to annex the Donbass region, a region that had already seceded from Kiev in 2014 after the right-wing coup overthrew the president they supported, isn’t imperialism in the sense that Marxists are talking about.

          When Marxists speak of imperialism, we mean a specific stage of capitalism by which finance capital becomes dominant and international extraction becomes economically necessary for continued existence. Russia is fighting against that system internationally, because the US Empire is keeping them boxed in and wishes to re-imperialize Russia like it was in the 90s, before the nationalists overthrew the liberals.

          Marxists do not have an issue with anything anyone can call imperialism, but with imperialism as it exists as a necessary and scientifically observed phenomena of late-stage capitalism, because this phenomena is the biggest obstacle to global socialism. Russia is helping Iran, Palestine, Cuba, Venezuela, and more in resisting the US Empire, because Russia benefits from the end of a US-dominated world. Western Europe is vassalized by the US Empire, which is why they side with the US Empire. They benefit from this system of plundering the global south, Russia does not.

        • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          Ukraine is an ally of Israel and the gulf states. Ukraine itself is governed by Nazis thanks to the US-backed coup in 2014.

              • mrdown@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                2 days ago

                The articles talks about russia providing intel to strike the usa not israel. You can read about russia praising russia and russia praising israel and collaborations during the war in syria

                • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 days ago

                  You can read about russia praising russia and russia praising israel and collaborations during the war in syria

                  So in your book “praises” is more important than extensive military involvement on the opposing sides? Even wiki lists Russia firmly at the same side as government, together with Iran and Palestinians, against (among others) Israel.

          • encelado748@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            16
            ·
            2 days ago

            That is simply false. A simplification that is not helpful. Ukraine is allied with Europe and was a strong ally of the US under Biden. Now Ukraine has a practical approach: in no way makes sense to help Russia and Iran as both are bombing Ukraine, so it is better to help the US to force them not to further help Russia and help with NATO cohesion as Ukraine depends on NATO working for them on continuing support against Russia.

            2014 was not a US-backed coup, you would need to demonstrate that. The scale and spontaneous origin of the protests, the leaked US diplomatic phone calls, and the immediate return to democratic elections monitored by OSCE are all clear indication that it was not an US-backed coup. Stop spreading false propaganda

            • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              16
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              2 days ago

              Playing a part in Ukraine’s “color revolution.” During the 2004 Orange Revolution, NED provided US$65 million to the Ukrainian opposition. Between 2007 and 2015, NED allocated more than US$30 million to support Ukrainian NGOs and promote “civic participation.” During the 2013-2014 Euromaidan, NED financed the Mass Media Institute to spread inflammatory information. NED also spent tens of millions of dollars in the use of such social media platforms as Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), and Instagram to spread disinformation, heighten ethnic tensions in Ukraine, and stir up ethnic antagonism in eastern Ukraine.

              The National Endowment for Democracy:What It Is and What It Does

              • encelado748@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                2 days ago

                you are saying this like Russia propaganda machine and hybrid warfare is not multiple times more extensive and pervasive. Moscow financed the pro Russian government with between US$50 and US$300 million and further energy schemes in the billions. To prevent an agreement with the EU Russia invested 15 billions.

                Russia was pouring millions in Ukraine before 2014

                Russia has spent $300m since 2014 to influence foreign officials, US says

                How do not see how anything that I have shared or that you have shared change the fact that 2014 Euromaidan was not a US-backed coup

                • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  12
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  you are saying this like Russia propaganda machine and hybrid warfare is not multiple times more extensive and pervasive.

                  Source: it came to me in a dream.

                • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  This argument rests on a false equivalence that collapses fundamentally different material relations into the same category. Loans, energy agreements, and diplomatic engagement with a neighboring state, however one judges Moscow’s intentions, are sovereign economic transactions operating in the realm of interstate relations. What the NED, USAID, and affiliated NGOs executed in Ukraine was something else entirely: a long-term, coordinated program to infiltrate civil society, capture media infrastructure, and mobilize ethnic divisions toward regime change.

                  You cite a Google Books snippet and a Guardian article as if they settle the matter. But that Guardian piece simply repeats State Department claims without independent verification, without naming sources, without contextualizing the declassified cable’s purpose. That’s not analysis. That’s amplification. When US intelligence says Russia spent hundreds of millions to influence officials, it’s important to ask: influence how? Through what mechanisms? With what evidence? And while we’re asking, where is the equivalent scrutiny of the millions to billions the NED and other cutout NGOs funneled directly into opposition groups, media outlets, and digital mobilization tools globally?

                  Let’s talk scale. You want to compare Russia’s hybrid warfare to the West’s? Open the Snowden documents. Look at Tailored Access Operations, the NSA’s elite unit for infiltrating foreign networks, hardware, and infrastructure. Recall Eternal Blue, the exploit the NSA developed, lost control of, and which later powered WannaCry(one of if not the largest ransomware attack in history) and more. Remember Stuxnet, the joint US-Israeli cyberweapon that physically destroyed Iranian centrifuges, a precedent for offensive cyber operations against sovereign states. These are documented capabilities, deployed globally, under a command structure that answers to no international body. Add Five Eyes: a transnational intelligence alliance with unparalleled signals intelligence reach, sharing raw data, coordinating disinformation, and shielding each other from accountability. Assange and Snowden were targeted for revealing this architecture. Russia’s media outreach, however aggressive, does not operate at this level of technical penetration, global integration, or institutional impunity.

                  Then there’s the propaganda machinery. The Nayirah testimony, fabricated by Hill & Knowlton and funded by the Kuwaiti government, was aired before Congress to manufacture consent for Gulf War I. The WMD lies, repeated across every major Western outlet, were used to justify invasion, occupation, and the destruction of a sovereign state. These weren’t fringe operations. They were central, coordinated, and successful. They reveal a system where intelligence, media, and political power fuse to produce narrative as weapon. To claim Russia’s apparatus surpasses this ignores the material base of Western ideological production: ownership of global platforms, control of financial messaging, dominance of academic and think-tank ecosystems. Russia rents space in that system. The West owns the building.

                  On Euromaidan itself: spontaneous protests don’t receive sustained, pre-planned funding from foreign government-linked foundations. They don’t feature trained organizers, pre-positioned media teams, and real-time social media amplification calibrated to escalate tension along ethnic lines. The leaked Nulands-Pyatt call was a glimpse of the coordination. And the return to democratic elections you cite occurred after a constitutional rupture, after an elected president fled under threat of violence, after parliament was reconstituted under duress, after the legal order was suspended. OSCE monitoring a vote does not retroactively legitimize the process that produced it. Legitimacy isn’t procedural alone. It’s material. It’s about who holds power, how they got it, and whose interests that power serves.

                  Then there’s the Donbas, the post-coup government’s first legislative acts included rolling back language protections for Russian speakers. And the response, armed resistance, Russian support, the descent into conflict, was foreseeable (predicted even as the coup in Ukraine to use them as the tip of the spear against Russia was entirely the point). To frame this as purely Russian aggression erases the internal fractures that external intervention exploited. That erasure serves a purpose. It simplifies a complex class and national question into a moral fable which is simply a fairytale.

            • ZeroHora@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              NATO is allied with Israel…

              2014 was not a US-backed coup, you would need to demonstrate that. The scale and spontaneous origin of the protests, the leaked US diplomatic phone calls, and the immediate return to democratic elections monitored by OSCE are all clear indication that it was not an US-backed coup. Stop

              Color revolution, not the first time.

            • mrdown@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              2 days ago

              Iran been victim of the west since they removed their puppet the shah. Sanctions hurt normal iranians. How does it make sens to try to destroy iran economy and then tell Iran do not strengthen ties with russia and china. If you can negociate with Russia you can also negociate with Iran but ukrsine never did that and hurted iran economy with sanctions in 2007

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          2 days ago

          The biggest country

          This is so self evidently disingenuous that I don’t know why anyone would keep taking you seriously. Nobody talking in bad faith would seriously try to propose that square mileage of land has any link to imperialism.