I’m no fan of the way democracy/capitalism is currently practiced but I’ve also never seen a successful communist country, are people just fascinated by the theory of communism, if it can’t work in practice then how is it better than democracy / capitalism, we need a system that can defend against the worst of us, not some ideal system that only functions when everyone in it is expected to also be a good person, cause that’s never gonna happen
Socialism/communism are democratic, and have been so historically and presebtly.
Socialism and communism don’t care if everyone is a “good person.” I don’t know how you came to that conclusion.
Communist parties over socialist economies, like in the USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, etc have all been dramatically successful in uplifting the lives of the working classes and democtatizing the economy. Communists support communism and socialism because of the effectiveness of these systems.
Lol yeah your sure picked some super successful examples of successful attempts at communism, I’m sure you don’t even live in any of these places, heck ussr didn’t even last 70 years, what cool aid are you drinking
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, sarcasm isn’t a point. These are all examples of countries that have been dramatically successful in uplifting the lives of the working classes.
Is USAmerica(worlds largest superpower) a successful capitalist country?
Is slavery and Eps stuff a success?
Success would need to be defined then, right?
And your notions on everyone having to be perfect seems to be wrong. The main basis of Communism is who owns the means of production and the level of development. The minority of the ultrawealthy in capitalism vs the majority of the regular people in communism.
Also, capitalist planning that focuses on profit and externalises social cost vs general planning that thinks about the ‘externalised stuff’.
And if you want to go deeper into critiques of capitalism and why we need to plan beyond that, I think looking up aspects like the crisis of overproduction and the tendency of the falling rate of profit might be good.
Others here maybe better able to explain more on that.
Listen man, just look into the histories of countries that have had communist revolutions, look at what changed after, and look at why they failed. Often times they improved the lives of the working class, and then were destroyed by capitalist interests. There’s outliers like Cambodias Khmer Rouge and Romanias Chowchesku (I’m not going to even try spelling his name correctly) but you have to remember that history and context matter, and that communism is still just an ideology that has differing effects based on execution and the external forces putting pressure on these countries. It was called the Cold War, not the Cold Everybody Try Shit and we will see what works. Capitalist interests had already been deeply entrenched in world economics and power before communism began to take any meaningful positions of power during the Industrial Revolution, and all of these contexts, interests, and events matter.
As I said such negative external and internal forces will always exist, if your ideology can’t stand against it in practice then it only works in theory. I wish things were different, but I’m not gonna pretend all the answers lie in this sole other system, people need to learn what they can from communism and apply that to a different system that could stand a chance
Socialism (what you call communism) already stands firm, working in theory and in practice. If you’re not familiar with the theory and haven’t looked much into the practice, just adopting standard red scare views, then I don’'t see why you think yourself fit to judge them.
China is a socialist country. Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, mixed forms of ownership govern the small and medium firms while massive state owned enterprises form the backbone of the economy. The State is under the control of the working class, which results in over 90% approval rates.
We should absolutely learn from their successes in creating a society controlled by the working class and directed in its interests.
Is that why they cheer on authoritarian/dictatorial communism… we just need one good man/woman/AI in power, and all our problems will be solved. Then they dust off their hands after their thought triggers a tiny dopamine response (thereby confirming its truth), and they feel inspired to post another meme or to downvote a few people silly enough to engage with them by calling them libs or billionaires. 🤣
We probably shouldn’t feed them (and most definitely not after midnight…)
Communists here cheer on socialist countries and communist parties partially because they’ve made massive strides in democratizing their economies, bringing it under the people’s control. No socialist system in history has been so lopsided as to hinge entirely on one person, there are obviously leaders in socialist countries but they don’t have the kind of omnipotence nor omnipresence your comment implies.
I engaged early on on Lemmy.ml out of curiosity. There is definitely interesting theory and history, and some genuinely learned folks lurking. Unfortunately, that is rarely what we get to see.
I’m no fan of the way democracy/capitalism is currently practiced but I’ve also never seen a successful communist country, are people just fascinated by the theory of communism, if it can’t work in practice then how is it better than democracy / capitalism, we need a system that can defend against the worst of us, not some ideal system that only functions when everyone in it is expected to also be a good person, cause that’s never gonna happen
A few things, here:
Communist theory does work in practice.
Socialism/communism are democratic, and have been so historically and presebtly.
Socialism and communism don’t care if everyone is a “good person.” I don’t know how you came to that conclusion.
Communist parties over socialist economies, like in the USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, etc have all been dramatically successful in uplifting the lives of the working classes and democtatizing the economy. Communists support communism and socialism because of the effectiveness of these systems.
Lol yeah your sure picked some super successful examples of successful attempts at communism, I’m sure you don’t even live in any of these places, heck ussr didn’t even last 70 years, what cool aid are you drinking
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, sarcasm isn’t a point. These are all examples of countries that have been dramatically successful in uplifting the lives of the working classes.
Is USAmerica(worlds largest superpower) a successful capitalist country?
Is slavery and Eps stuff a success?
Success would need to be defined then, right?
And your notions on everyone having to be perfect seems to be wrong. The main basis of Communism is who owns the means of production and the level of development. The minority of the ultrawealthy in capitalism vs the majority of the regular people in communism.
Also, capitalist planning that focuses on profit and externalises social cost vs general planning that thinks about the ‘externalised stuff’.
And if you want to go deeper into critiques of capitalism and why we need to plan beyond that, I think looking up aspects like the crisis of overproduction and the tendency of the falling rate of profit might be good.
Others here maybe better able to explain more on that.
How many communist countries have you seen?
Probably not enough, care to share any countries I should look into
Listen man, just look into the histories of countries that have had communist revolutions, look at what changed after, and look at why they failed. Often times they improved the lives of the working class, and then were destroyed by capitalist interests. There’s outliers like Cambodias Khmer Rouge and Romanias Chowchesku (I’m not going to even try spelling his name correctly) but you have to remember that history and context matter, and that communism is still just an ideology that has differing effects based on execution and the external forces putting pressure on these countries. It was called the Cold War, not the Cold Everybody Try Shit and we will see what works. Capitalist interests had already been deeply entrenched in world economics and power before communism began to take any meaningful positions of power during the Industrial Revolution, and all of these contexts, interests, and events matter.
As I said such negative external and internal forces will always exist, if your ideology can’t stand against it in practice then it only works in theory. I wish things were different, but I’m not gonna pretend all the answers lie in this sole other system, people need to learn what they can from communism and apply that to a different system that could stand a chance
Socialism (what you call communism) already stands firm, working in theory and in practice. If you’re not familiar with the theory and haven’t looked much into the practice, just adopting standard red scare views, then I don’'t see why you think yourself fit to judge them.
The PRC is a good place to start, considering it’s on track to becoming the world’s most developed country and advanced socialist state.
What? no! But Joe Rogan and the FBI told me China bad? But now you say China good?!?
Removed by mod
China is a socialist country. Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, mixed forms of ownership govern the small and medium firms while massive state owned enterprises form the backbone of the economy. The State is under the control of the working class, which results in over 90% approval rates.
We should absolutely learn from their successes in creating a society controlled by the working class and directed in its interests.
Is that why they cheer on authoritarian/dictatorial communism… we just need one good man/woman/AI in power, and all our problems will be solved. Then they dust off their hands after their thought triggers a tiny dopamine response (thereby confirming its truth), and they feel inspired to post another meme or to downvote a few people silly enough to engage with them by calling them libs or billionaires. 🤣
We probably shouldn’t feed them (and most definitely not after midnight…)
Communists here cheer on socialist countries and communist parties partially because they’ve made massive strides in democratizing their economies, bringing it under the people’s control. No socialist system in history has been so lopsided as to hinge entirely on one person, there are obviously leaders in socialist countries but they don’t have the kind of omnipotence nor omnipresence your comment implies.
Some of the performative types def seem to be in it so they can call each other comrades and feel part of a niche in group
I engaged early on on Lemmy.ml out of curiosity. There is definitely interesting theory and history, and some genuinely learned folks lurking. Unfortunately, that is rarely what we get to see.