Public ownership doesn’t mean receipt of dividends, like some kind of massive cooperative. It means owned across all of society. The state handles that in socialism, yes, China is socialist.
The state is an extension of the ruling class, it isn’t an independent entity. Ownership of the state is largely determined by which aspect is principle, private ownership, public ownership, etc. In China, public, collective ownership is principle, and the communists created a socialist state after overthrowing the nationalists.
You said “the working class is in control of the state”, and I was looking for some argument to support that. I think Xi is in charge of the state, and I don’t think the working class gets much say in that.
Sure. The country that has a communist party large enough to be more populous than all but less than 20 countries is ruled by a single guy with no input from a single fucking other person.
Xi is at the head of the CPC, but that isn’t in conflict with the working class being in control of the state. The mode of production is the biggest aspect governing which class the state is under the control of. Further, China is comprehensively democratic, moreso than western countries:
The PRC doesn’t have the same kind of electoralist faux-democracy that capitalist countries have, it has a comprehensive unitary socialist democracy. China’s model is more effective at delivering the results people want, which is why over 90% support the system and the government.
If your narrow definition of democracy only includes presidential elections, then you’d be wrong about what democracy is. Democracy is rule by the people, and it has many forms beyond what liberals insist is the only valid form.
Even from an anti-China perspective, this is a ludicrous statement. Xi has executive authority, but he only has it because he has the support of the Central Committee, which itself only has power thanks to the support of the rest of the national government. Xi is not a wizard who can make a billion people bend to his whims and he cannot wrestle them into submission. If you want to develop an anti-China position that is more useful (true or not), you still need to accept the basic fact that states are run by classes. So the question is, is China run by bureaucrats, private capitalists, or the people?
You don’t need to answer that to me. My point is just that autocracy in the sense of one person controlling the state is genuinely a myth, whether it’s Xi, Trump, Hitler, or King Henry. They were all supported by and ultimately needed to answer to their respective states’ ruling classes (which themselves subjugated at least one other class and might be working cooperatively with one or more other classes).
Public ownership doesn’t mean receipt of dividends, like some kind of massive cooperative. It means owned across all of society. The state handles that in socialism, yes, China is socialist.
OK but you said public ownership as a part of how “the working class” is in control of the state, and this sounds like not that.
The state is an extension of the ruling class, it isn’t an independent entity. Ownership of the state is largely determined by which aspect is principle, private ownership, public ownership, etc. In China, public, collective ownership is principle, and the communists created a socialist state after overthrowing the nationalists.
I’m not seeing your point.
You said “the working class is in control of the state”, and I was looking for some argument to support that. I think Xi is in charge of the state, and I don’t think the working class gets much say in that.
Sure. The country that has a communist party large enough to be more populous than all but less than 20 countries is ruled by a single guy with no input from a single fucking other person.
Grow up.
Xi is at the head of the CPC, but that isn’t in conflict with the working class being in control of the state. The mode of production is the biggest aspect governing which class the state is under the control of. Further, China is comprehensively democratic, moreso than western countries:
Remind me who ran against Xi in his very democratic last election?
The PRC doesn’t have the same kind of electoralist faux-democracy that capitalist countries have, it has a comprehensive unitary socialist democracy. China’s model is more effective at delivering the results people want, which is why over 90% support the system and the government.
If your narrow definition of democracy only includes presidential elections, then you’d be wrong about what democracy is. Democracy is rule by the people, and it has many forms beyond what liberals insist is the only valid form.
Even from an anti-China perspective, this is a ludicrous statement. Xi has executive authority, but he only has it because he has the support of the Central Committee, which itself only has power thanks to the support of the rest of the national government. Xi is not a wizard who can make a billion people bend to his whims and he cannot wrestle them into submission. If you want to develop an anti-China position that is more useful (true or not), you still need to accept the basic fact that states are run by classes. So the question is, is China run by bureaucrats, private capitalists, or the people?
You don’t need to answer that to me. My point is just that autocracy in the sense of one person controlling the state is genuinely a myth, whether it’s Xi, Trump, Hitler, or King Henry. They were all supported by and ultimately needed to answer to their respective states’ ruling classes (which themselves subjugated at least one other class and might be working cooperatively with one or more other classes).