This is what a lot of young leftists hand wave away
Everyone deserves a minimum standard of living. Food, shelter, and healthcare are human rights and should be free for those who can’t afford it. - Immigrants are good for the economy. Even the illegal ones. We should be making immigration easier.
Taking in infinite immigrants and providing food shelter and healthcare for them and their lineage until the end of time ALONG WITH all of the disadvantaged citizens is not economically sustainable. You’d effectively be turning the U.S. into the world’s homeless shelter. At some point, likely sooner than later, all the raised taxes in the world on the businesses that don’t leave won’t be enough to care for everyone.
I’m all for compassion but it has to be reasoned compassion. You can’t just look at what your version of Utopia is and say that’s what we should do. Humanity is not perfect and neither will any society it builds be. But at the same time we can’t let perfect be the enemy of the good, and so we engage in these discussions.
Taking in infinite immigrants and providing food shelter and healthcare for them and their lineage until the end of time ALONG WITH all of the disadvantaged citizens is not economically sustainable.
I disagree.
You’d effectively be turning the U.S. into the world’s homeless shelter.
Fuck yeah we would.
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Here’s the thing about immigrants: they start businesses. They get degrees. They make money. They pay taxes. They drive the economic engine forward. They’re not helpless fucking children, they are smart and driven and capable adults who happen to not speak your language and may have browner skin than you.
Actually, no. Obviously any immigrant set is going to be diverse. Contributions all coming on a spectrum from nothing to multi millionaire business starting.
The trick is to have a firm enough analytics handle on where you are as a country to handle all of the aforementioned needs of all of them that need it. You WILL eventually hit a point where you have to turn people away to break even economically . Then they start to come in illegally and you’re pushed past the breaking point.
How do you propose, in a world where we have that data (that may or may not exist yet I really don’t know if it’s possible to nail all of that information perfectly), that we handle the excess? If a church takes in too many people, they ask for more donations. If a country takes in too many people, who do they turn to?
What breaking point are you imagining? Our ability to feed people? The US produces enough food to feed the entire world.
Not the entire world a US meat based diet, but yes the entire world.
House people? That’s more challenging, I admit, but the people coming here are a fraction of our population.
If conditions deteriorate because of overcrowding, you will have fewer people make the trip. I get that outbreaks of war, political oppression, and maybe disease could push people to make even dangerous futile attempts, but economic migrants will find an equilibrium.
Population growth is falling worldwide. There is no danger of overcrowding beyond the point of the land to sustain life. That could be a concern for a nation like Iceland, but not the US, which is one of the most productive and least populated places on earth.
There is a possibility of deteriorating living conditions, in the short term, but those are challenges I am willing to face.
The scope of the original statement was food shelter and healthcare. That’s a tall order for open borders with no concern for logistics.
Consider what the country looks like if conditions have deteriorated so much that it deters people from coming here. We will have zoomed past the equilibrium stage. What does life look for the average citizen much less immigrant at that point?
I’m sorry to wrap it up there but I only have so much bandwidth. However, these are conversations that people used to be able to have to tease out nuance, but somehow the zeitgeist has devolved to adversarial tone, name calling, and cultish behaviors. Hopefully I’ll find more when I have more time.
This is what a lot of young leftists hand wave away
Taking in infinite immigrants and providing food shelter and healthcare for them and their lineage until the end of time ALONG WITH all of the disadvantaged citizens is not economically sustainable. You’d effectively be turning the U.S. into the world’s homeless shelter. At some point, likely sooner than later, all the raised taxes in the world on the businesses that don’t leave won’t be enough to care for everyone.
I’m all for compassion but it has to be reasoned compassion. You can’t just look at what your version of Utopia is and say that’s what we should do. Humanity is not perfect and neither will any society it builds be. But at the same time we can’t let perfect be the enemy of the good, and so we engage in these discussions.
I disagree.
Fuck yeah we would.
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Here’s the thing about immigrants: they start businesses. They get degrees. They make money. They pay taxes. They drive the economic engine forward. They’re not helpless fucking children, they are smart and driven and capable adults who happen to not speak your language and may have browner skin than you.
Yeah, it feels like you don’t really want to engage with conflicting positions and would rather assume I’m a racist.
And you just assume that immigrants would be dependant forever instead of a massive benefit. All evidence of US history to the contrary.
Actually, no. Obviously any immigrant set is going to be diverse. Contributions all coming on a spectrum from nothing to multi millionaire business starting.
The trick is to have a firm enough analytics handle on where you are as a country to handle all of the aforementioned needs of all of them that need it. You WILL eventually hit a point where you have to turn people away to break even economically . Then they start to come in illegally and you’re pushed past the breaking point.
How do you propose, in a world where we have that data (that may or may not exist yet I really don’t know if it’s possible to nail all of that information perfectly), that we handle the excess? If a church takes in too many people, they ask for more donations. If a country takes in too many people, who do they turn to?
What breaking point are you imagining? Our ability to feed people? The US produces enough food to feed the entire world.
Not the entire world a US meat based diet, but yes the entire world.
House people? That’s more challenging, I admit, but the people coming here are a fraction of our population.
If conditions deteriorate because of overcrowding, you will have fewer people make the trip. I get that outbreaks of war, political oppression, and maybe disease could push people to make even dangerous futile attempts, but economic migrants will find an equilibrium.
Population growth is falling worldwide. There is no danger of overcrowding beyond the point of the land to sustain life. That could be a concern for a nation like Iceland, but not the US, which is one of the most productive and least populated places on earth.
There is a possibility of deteriorating living conditions, in the short term, but those are challenges I am willing to face.
The scope of the original statement was food shelter and healthcare. That’s a tall order for open borders with no concern for logistics.
Consider what the country looks like if conditions have deteriorated so much that it deters people from coming here. We will have zoomed past the equilibrium stage. What does life look for the average citizen much less immigrant at that point?
I’m sorry to wrap it up there but I only have so much bandwidth. However, these are conversations that people used to be able to have to tease out nuance, but somehow the zeitgeist has devolved to adversarial tone, name calling, and cultish behaviors. Hopefully I’ll find more when I have more time.
I’m saying that fundamentally your position is racism, there’s really no other way to see it.