• Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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    lmao, no it doesn’t. the US didn’t go to Afghanistan to eradicate opium. the US didn’t give a shit about it at all, lmao.

    do tankies so blindly hate the US that they’ll give the Taliban a bj just to try to make the US look bad? wow…

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      The Afghanistan Papers: A Secret History of the War is a summary of the Washington Post’s reporting on Afghanistan, specifically on the US government’s own internal assessments from all levels of the military and political administration. In it, you’ll find this quote:

      Of all the failures in Afghanistan, the war on opium ranked among the most feckless. During two decades, the United States spent more than $9 billion on a dizzying array of programs to deter Afghanistan from supplying the world with heroin. None of the measures worked. In many cases, they made things worse.

      The US doesn’t need “tankies” or anyone else to make themselves look bad as far as the Afghan drug trade goes.

      • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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        lmao, so? we get it. you hate the US. what’s your point? just to come here and whine about it?

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          Ha you were conclusively proven wrong and didn’t even blink. A brain so smooth no facts can get stuck on it.

          spoiler

          Post another 🤓 “I was on the debate team” graphic, that’s how discussions work

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            Ha you were conclusively proven wrong and didn’t even blink

            oh, you mean here?

            the US didn’t give a shit about it at all

            ya got me there. they did care. still doesn’t prove that it’s why the US was there, and, in fact, several of the linked sources directly state to the contrary against claims that it was.

            too bad it’s meaningless and - like always - you’re wrong. lmao

        • uralsolo [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          This flew over your head but it is heavily implied that the US’ “war on opium” was in fact a deliberate effort to subsidize opium production and transport, a policy that we have pursued for the benefit of our own state-backed terror organizations in many other countries. Regardless of all other opinions on the US and the Taliban, this is an issue that the Taliban is objectively better than us on, and saying “lol who cares” is not an argument against talking about it since obviously the people in this thread care because they’re in here talking about it.

          • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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            This flew over your head but it is heavily implied

            are logical fallacies all you guys know?

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              That’s not the creation of a straw man, that is an accusation I’m making of you, specifically, based on the fact that your comment in no way addressed the idea. If you read my comment you’ll see that I also address your “argument” directly.

              • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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                That’s not the creation of a straw man

                I saw this in another comment, I think it works here:

                “nuh-uh” isn’t a convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

                hat is an accusation I’m making of you, specifically, based on the fact that your comment in no way addressed the idea

                just because you don’t understand (or refuse to acknowledge) what I said doesn’t make me wrong or you right.

                If you read my comment you’ll see that I also address your “argument” directly.

                with a logical fallacy. I pointed this out

                • uralsolo [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  “nuh-uh” isn’t a convincing argument.

                  lmao. Let’s review what you said that I responded to.

                  lmao, so? we get it. you hate the US. what’s your point? just to come here and whine about it?

                  🤡 “Why would you post world news in a world news community? Who cares?”

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  Who said I was arguing with you, dipshit? What would the point of that be? I’ve seen how you act. You ignore literally everything everyone says and post clippings from a high school textbook you clearly never read and don’t understand.

                  And what the fuck would I be making an argument about in the first place? You aren’t talking about anything. Shame on my comrades for engaging with you for anything other than to bully your ass for being a blight on the conversation other people are having around you.

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  Still +5 upvotes on this six hours later, huh?

                  Weird how the only people who find value in your comments only ever show up right when you make them.

                  garf-troll

            • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              You know we are leftists here. You can just say you are into your wife sleeping with other men. We respect a diversity of lifestyles. You don’t have to do the whiskey overcompensation persona thing here. We can accept and respect who you are.

              • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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                You know we are leftists here. You can just say you are into your wife sleeping with other men. We respect a diversity of lifestyles. You don’t have to do the whiskey overcompensation persona thing here. We can accept and respect who you are.

                you have a talent for self-contradictory speech. the way you mix the word “respect” with overflowing disrespect, how you espouse leftism and diversity while speaking the sexism and misogyny of a fascist… it’s artful.

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                  you have a talent for self-contradictory speech. the way you mix the word “respect” with overflowing disrespect, how you espouse leftism and diversity while speaking the sexism and misogyny of a fascist… it’s artful.

                  Wtf are you talking about? Nobody said anything sexist or misogynyst. Words have meaning. Saying that you’re into cuckoldry has nothing to do with being sexist to women. It’s rude to you yes but fascist? Come the fuck on. Stop saying socialists are fascist for fuck’s sake it’s unbelievably cringe and nobody is buying it.

                • UnicodeHamSic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  It is artful. That is the point. Further, the only sexism I talked about is the internalized negative self image that would lead a person to think ‘whiskey pickle’ is anything other than a cringe attempt to develop a self identity by subverting the worst societie’s worst instincts. Most of us here have done worse, but we grew stronger and passed through that phase. Join us.

          • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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            They were directly responding to your words, to disprove them.

            except they didn’t disprove them. US Marines also peed a lot while they were there, but it’s not why they are there. it proves nothing.

            Do you really not see the connection between the comments?

            correlation ≠ causation

              • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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                You’ve moved the goalposts, but no matter.

                “I know you are but what am I?” is not a convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5. (borrowed form another comment)

                Operation Enduring Freedom was sold as a war on terrorism

                see, you even admit that it wasn’t about opium.

                the US repeatedly cited opium as a target of the war because they claimed it funded the Taliban.

                you’re welcome to cite sources to back up your claims. and I’ll be happy to point out how the timeline doesn’t support your assertions that the war was about opium, it just happened to be something the US did while we were there.

                Or did you think it was retaliation for 9/11 or something?

                what I think is irrelevant. that facts are what matter.

                I have American friends who died defending those poppy fields. I remember it all very well.

                irrelevant. present facts. not anecdotes or your feelings.

                Also do feel free to explain how this is any way relevant to the conversation:

                correlation ≠ causation

                I have, repeatedly. your inability/refusal to understand is not my problem.

        • Cataphract@lemmy.ko4abp.com
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          person replies back with factual evidence contradicting your personal beliefs in a foreign war, “lmao, so?”

          Where is here? The World News community? The only one I see whining is the pickle. Is this a small step away from saying people should go back from where they came from and leave this social space you’ve claimed as your own? IDK wtf you’re thinking coming into someone else’s post, refuting verified evidence, then proclaiming hate because its context makes the US look subpar. What’s your point, you love the US, why come on here and have to ignorantly shout it?

          • Whiskey Pickle@lemmy.ml
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            person replies back with factual evidence contradicting your personal beliefs in a foreign war, “lmao, so?”

            you mean an Association Fallacy that fails to prove their claims? US Maries also peed while they were there. That doesn’t prove it’s why they were there.

            • Cataphract@lemmy.ko4abp.com
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              You:

              the US didn’t give a shit about it at all

              Response:

              the United States spent more than $9 billion on a dizzying array of programs to deter Afghanistan from supplying the world with heroin

              You:

              lmao, so?

              That doesn’t prove it’s why they were there.

              Now the goal post has been moved to WhY?!? were we there? Throw up some more pretty images to explain the situation please.

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                Now the goal post has been moved to WhY

                wow, that’s quite the pretzel you’d twisted yourself into trying score some imaginary “point”.

                The “goal post” was always the “why” and it was never to eradicate opium. Every source, every article linked here bears that out. all that’s ben proven here is:

                the US didn’t give a shit about it at all

                ya got me there. they did care. still doesn’t prove that it’s why the US was there, and, in fact, several of the linked sources directly state to the contrary against claims that it was.

                try not to hurt yourself with more of those mental gymnastics. it’s hilarious to watch

                edit: ya know, you probably wouldn’t be so outraged and angry all the time if you didn’t constant make stuff up to be outraged and angry about.

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      We also didn’t threaten to kill the farmers for growing it. No shit the Taliban was successful. Comply or die. They’re the ones who were profiting from it anyway. Now that they’re in charge again, religion trumps financial needs.

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        I’m pretty sure the Talibans (not to defend them, mind you), were already cracking down on poppy farming before 9/11 and the subsequent decade long war.

        So how were they benefitting? Or do you mean to say the US and allied forces allowed mass poppy crop farming that was then utilized by the Taliban to fund itself? You know there is an alternative hypothesis: the US and other occupation allied forces tolerated poppy farming to pacify and win over tribal chiefs and keep corrupt Afghan officials squarely on their side. Maybe both were happening, who is to say.

        • Fazoo@lemmy.ml
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          Financed their war effort. We valued the whole hearts and minds over destroying farmers livelihood.

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              Quite a few would disagree with that view, giving how many fled their own country when the Taliban took over again. But hey, don’t let that narrative ruin your perspective. Lol

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                Of course people who cooperate with occupiers usually want out when the occupation ends. They don’t want to face the consequences of selling out their country.

                And of course “when people leave a Bad Country it’s for political reasons, when they leave a Good Country it’s for economic reasons” applies.

  • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    Intelligence agencies love the drug trade because:

    1. It’s easy (certainly for a state actor) dark money
    2. It’s ubiquitous
    3. It gives you blackmail material on all sorts of useful people
    4. It gives you the proven ability to smuggle bulk quantities across the globe
    5. Who is going to blow the whistle on you?
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    This is one of the dumbest articles I ever read. The entire government changed. Taliban can be dictators. The US couldn’t. On top of this, they essentially had two years to switch to wheat before this occurred. Something that was less economically feasible over two years ago due to an unfortunate food shortage in the area now.

    Asking why someone couldn’t get something done as quickly as a dictator is something a naive child asks.

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        What facts does that change. Do you have a seperate non-tankie source that says the US did everything it could to stop opium production? It’s quite clear letting it go on suited them.

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            You are the one implying we should ignore the points in the article because of its source.

            They grabbed all the oil and couldn’t even try to kill the opium industry. They fucked the whole country, bailed on it and let it go to crazies, and it’s THOSE crazies that finally do the right thing. And all it took was a couple of sticks,what a joke.

            The US military complex is fucking disgusting and shits all over wherever it decides to raid next. But I guess any reason to bootlick is a good one. Pathetic.

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                Ah yes, establishing a democratic country by pillaging it’s resources, letting the drug industry grow and then giving the whole country wrapped up in a bow to the Taliban. At least your country’s propaganda budget isn’t money wasted.

                I’m not praising the Taliban, a group btw built by the US. I’m saying if they managed to so easily destroy the opium industry, there is no reason the US couldn’t on their “peace keeping” mission. Except there is a reason, and knowing the CIAs track record, it’s easy to guess what it is.

                But keep drinking the Kool aid. “America number one. It’s not called pillaging if we are bringing democracy to savages. Our guns only shoot rainbows and we only bomb civi city centers when they deserve it.”

                I guess all logic goes out the window if you can utter the word tankie just like in the 70s when you could ignore a person points by screaming commie. Not like that word is being instilled in you specifically so you can blindly follow your leaders. I bet you don’t even know just how far down your face is bent.

  • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    During the time of the US occupation of Afghanistan, opium from the region comprised a full 90% of the world’s heroin supply. So I would say “the same thing they’ve been doing since at least the days of the Vietnam War and the Golden Triangle.”

  • n3m37h@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    I had a bunch of friends who went to Afghanistan/Iraq and they were protecting poppy and marijuana fields

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    from MediaBiasFactCheck.com

    Mint Press News – Bias and Credibility

    FAR LEFT BIAS

    QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

    A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

    • Overall, we rate Mint Press Far-Left Biased and Questionable based on the publication of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience anti-Israel propaganda, poor sourcing, failed fact checks, and false claims.

    Detailed Report

    • Reasoning: Propaganda, Conspiracies, Pseudoscience, Poor Sources, Failed Fact Checks
    • Bias Rating: FAR LEFT
    • Factual Reporting: LOW
    • Country: USA
    • Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
    • Media Type: Website
    • Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
    • MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY

    History

    Mint Press News is an independent Minnesota-based news website launched in 2012 by Mnar Muhawesh. It covers political, economic, foreign affairs, and environmental issues. According to their about page, “We focus our coverage on issues relating to the effects of special interest groups, big business and lobbying efforts and how they shape policies at home and abroad, including American foreign policy. Through the lens of social justice and human rights, we report on how these dynamics drive our foreign affairs and impact the world, and examine the effects they have on our democracy and freedoms as defined by the constitution.”

    Analysis / Bias

    Mint Press presents news with a strong left-leaning bias in story selection. Headlines and articles use moderately loaded language like this: NFL Freezes Policy Barring Players From Kneeling During Anthem. This particular story is republished from the conspiracy website ZeroHedge. Typically, Mint Press sources their information, but sometimes it is from Mixed factual or conspiracy websites. In general, story selection moderately favors the left, such as this Trump Administration Opens Door for Corporate Attack on Vulnerable Wildlife.

    Read more at MediaBiasFactCheck.com

      • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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        shame on Time?

        also, it’s not the exact same article. it’s a different article by a different author. you can tell if you bother to read it instead of just googling around until you found another article with a similar click-bait headline…

        do you often lie to make your point, or is this a new experience for you?

        • meth_dragon [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          sorry, i thought native english speakers would be more familiar with the concept of hyperbole. i will take the time to write a brief summary of relevant semantic techniques used in subsequent posts to help out the more rhetorically challenged members of our community.

          • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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            oh, so when you get caught in a lie, you just hurl insults rather than admit to it. hardly a surprise…

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              notice how i didn’t prepend that post with a brief summary of rhetorical techniques like i said i would? that’s because i didn’t use any. ditto this post.

              • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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                are you seriously expecting a pat on the back for not being a more toxic troll than you already are? is not lying and arguing in bad faith such a difficult impulse for you to control that you think you deserve treats when you don’t do either or both?

                woooow

                • meth_dragon [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  you expressed confusion with my use of the english language and so i have adjusted my communication style to suit your apparent needs. if you feel this somehow reflects poorly on your personal character it is no fault of mine.

                  the entire point of me linking the time article was to point out that it was cognitive laziness (and likely bad faith) on your part to invoke a third party ‘bias checker’ (that in all likelihood is itself biased) as some impartial mediator of reality. typically, the next logical step to take here would be to engage with the points of the articles in question and judge their merits through consensus based on verifiable fact, but it seems you got lost somewhere along the way and now you appear to be resisting attempts to shepherd you back on topic.

        • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          Do you know what hyperbole is, or exaggeration? Of course it’s not the exact same article. Come on. The point is that multiple sources collaborate the main point, that opium production has fallen under the Taliban.

          • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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            Do you know what hyperbole is, or exaggeration?

            Yes, and I know when someone is lying but just says it’s “hyperbole” when called out on a lie, which is obviously what’s happening here.

            Of course it’s not the exact same article.

            so you even admit that they lied

            The point is that multiple sources collaborate the main point, that opium production has fallen under the Taliban.

            so what? there’s a famine right now, and there are obvious reason to shift production to a viable food source. twisting yourself into knots just to blame the US is absurd and not supported by the facts.

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              Before 9/11 they had banned poppy cultivation. After America leaves, they ban poppy cultivation. During the occupation, lots of poppies are cultivated and processed into opium.

              America consumes 80% of the world opium supply on average.

              What conclusion do these facts support?

              • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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                What conclusion do these facts support?

                that you will draw biased conclusions and assert them free of any factual evidence to back them up.

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                  You said American blame for poppy production during the occupation isn’t supported by the facts.

                  I restated those facts and asked what conclusion they do support.

                  So did the occupation increase opium production on purpose or just turn a blind eye to it?

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        can’t argue based on facts, so you just hurl insults. typical

        • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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          Others are arguing with facts, you aren’t paying attention, you’re showing clip art of the scarecrow’s phallus. We’re not in debate club, you’re not a teacher, I don’t respect you. The fact that you keep trying to turn your nose up doesn’t make you look like a genius, it makes you look more like a fucking liberal. cause you are, that’s what you. And you’ll achieve jack shit because of it. have fun voteing

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            borrowed form another comment: “nuh-uh!” isn’t a convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

            you’re showing clip art of the scarecrow’s phallus

            wow, if “scarecrow phallus” is what you see, that speaks volumes about the contents of your psyche. yikes

            that said, if you can’t debate your way around “clip art” and the best you have is the argument of a 5-year-old, that’s just an admission that you have no valid argument at all. that explains the whining and childish insults.

            rage on, sad kid.

            • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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              wow, if “scarecrow phallus” is what you see, that speaks volumes about the contents of your psyche. yikes

              holy shit, this is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. also “I’m not arguing with you.” “Wow, your arguments are shit.” what a brilliant dialogue. like leonardo da vinki wrote it.

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      We need a bot for this. Synopsis should be added to the tldr-bot or something.

      • uralsolo [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I don’t think so. That whole website is premised on an elementary logical fallacy. Just because a news source is left- or right-leaning doesn’t make it inherently less trustworthy than a “centrist” one, in fact all you’ve done is introduce your own untrustworthy ideological bias into the judgement criteria by proactively dismissing anyone who doesn’t align with your definition of centrism.

        • MORTARS@lemmy.ml
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          it’s just a test of how much the position agrees with the people running the website haha

          there’s no such thing as “bias-free” propaganda, and propaganda isn’t inherently subversive

      • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
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        ya know, I’ve looked into it. one of the biggest problems with bots is that they have to be hosted from somewhere. that’s my first hiccup.

        I’d LOVE to make this a bot, but I don’t know where I’d host it from.

      • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Learn to read. If you can’t be assed to actually read the article you’re commenting on then go back to le 100 wholesome keanu reddit.

    • TheGamingLuddite [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      Holy shit is this a bit? Do people on here really still believe in a neutral or unbiased press? Shouldn’t virtually every event from the Iraq war onward have already disillusioned you of that?

  • orcrist@lemm.ee
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    No, it doesn’t raise questions. We knew back in 2003 that there was never a long-term plan. The point was to kill a guy, and then to do some military spending. A major success, on those lines.

    The Taliban are terrible, though.

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    I mean… Sure there are major improvements that can be had in the US, but punishment and consequences as defined in Sharia law isn’t exactly something that the US can simply adopt.

    • SLfgb@feddit.nl
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      May I suggest you read the article before commenting

      Armed with little more than sticks, teams of counter-narcotics brigades travel the country, cutting down Afghanistan’s poppy fields.

      • unscholarly_source@lemmy.ca
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        And may I suggest you do some research before replying?

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-65787391

        Balancing an AK-47 assault rifle slung around his left shoulder and a large stick in his right hand, Abdul hits the heads of poppies as hard as he can. The stalks fly in the air, as does the sap from the poppy bulb, releasing the distinctive, pungent smell of opium in its most raw form.

        In April 2022, Taliban supreme leader Haibatullah Akhundzada decreed that cultivation of the poppy - from which opium, the key ingredient for the drug heroin can be extracted - was strictly prohibited. Anyone violating the ban would have their field destroyed and be penalised according to Sharia law.

        The sticks are used to destroy the fields, not beat people 🤦

        And punishment under Sharia law is much more severe than getting beat by a stick, which isn’t something that obviously will never fly in the US.

        • SLfgb@feddit.nl
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          The sticks are used to destroy the fields, not beat people

          That was my point exactly.

          But invoking the spectre of “Sharia law” is just as vague as referring to “US law”.

          • BrooklynMan@lemmy.world
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            But invoking the spectre of “Sharia law” is just as vague as referring to “US law”.

            right, because Sharia Law and US Law are exactly the same thing…

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        Something the US couldn’t do under the previous government. Plus many switched to wheat beforehand anyway due to food shortages. The US didn’t rule Afghanistan and had to work within Afghanistan’s government. That government is gone. The Taliban can act like a dictator. Sure, armed with little more than sticks, but farmers had a two year lag beforehand to switch to wheat. This ban wasn’t just announced it’s old. It was just never enforced til now. I mean, it’s ridiculous to compare the two situations. If the US did the same, at the time they were there, there would have been total economic collapse plus basically commiting war crimes.

        • SLfgb@feddit.nl
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          iirc there was barely any opium production in Afghanistan pre-2001 under Taliban rule. It was in the following 20 years that the industry boomed and a lot of those government officials you refer to and their relatives got extremely rich from that, including President Karzai’s own little brother. The US put those people in power and propped them up for over 2 decades. It’s pretty clear the US decision-makers tried to eradicate poppy just as little as they tried to create peace in the region (not at all).

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    Editorially, MintPress News supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria. It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia, and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Western perspective. In one contentious article, MintPress News falsely asserted that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was perpetrated by rebel groups rather than by the Syrian government.

    Wikipedia article on mintpressnews

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    The us was using opium as a weapon of war against russia and iran. Its well known and the public health concequences in both those countries were horrific

    But since mexico has orders of mag itude more state capacity than the taliban their failure to solve opium problem makes one almost certain the us goverment is also behind that.

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      You got a source on that? Last I checked Opium is an excellent cash crop that the Taliban used to fund their guerilla war with the US. Now that the Americans are out there is no point to keep growing it.

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        USA frooze the National Reserves of Afgahnistan after their Ho Chi Ming City Replay , thereby actually punging Afgahnistan into Starvation crisis und accelerating the switch from Cash Crop to Food Production , this has now increased the Water Use in the helmaz river valley thereby is leading to borderclashes with iran over the water use.

        • Farman [any]@hexbear.net
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          Not really. The river was also closed to iran during the american ocupation. In fact the taliban actually released watter at some point. Less than they should have but more than the previous regime.

          The border clashes have nothing to do with that and more to do with the taliban organization being run more like a mcdonalds than a regular state. Sometimes a franchise owner decide they want to invade iran and get into a shootout. But the central command in unaware of that.

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        Last I checked Opium is an excellent cash crop that the Taliban used to fund their guerilla war with the US. Now that the Americans are out there is no point to keep growing it.

        You got a source on that?

      • Farman [any]@hexbear.net
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        Just search opium in russia or opium in iran. You will see that its a huge problem there. You will also see both countries complaining to the us that they are maliciously increasing opium production.

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    Lmao

    You mean the US wasn’t trying to eliminate heroin production surprised-pika

    “…but at what cost!!!” These lizards deserve a whole lot of things.