You are redefining imperialism. I’m following imperialism as it was first analyzed by John A. Hobson as it was arising in its modern form, then correctly carried forward and codified by Lenin, then advanced to the modern day by people like Nkrumah and Cheng Enfu. Imperialism is characterized by the following:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
These are the mechanisms by which imperialism functions today, and they do not apply to Russia. Russia is largely a commodity exporter, with a paltry sum of finance capital, and no colonies nor neocolonies. Russia is not economically exploiting the global south, either. It is not colonial, nor neocolonial, nor imperialist.
Russia is governed by nationalists. Fascist is cutting it a bit, but I won’t hotly contest that like I would the farcical claims that it is imperialist. Fascism is best understood as capitalism in decay, the logic of colonialism applied domestically. Russia doesn’t quite fit that, though it is squarely nationalist and capitalist, and certainly not imperialist.
Lol! So you’re using a “redefined” definition of Imperialism, written by people who don’t want to be defined as imperialists?
Just tossing thousands of years worth of actual human history out the window and proclaiming all previous definitions of imperialism, obsolete? That’s the definition you’re going with, and that’s it? Period.
Obviously there’s no point in continuing this conversation. You have your preconditioned biases, and you have no intention of using any critical thought to question whether they are valid. Got it.
No, I’m using the original and developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it. Lenin famously overthrew Tsarist Russia, established socialism, and got rid of Russia’s imperial holdings, after writing Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism. Kwame Nkrumah was a Ghanaian that fought against neocolonialism, and wrote Neocolonialism, the Last Stage of Imperialism, and Cheng Enfu is one of China’s top economists and theorists of neoimperialism.
Prior forms of pre-capitalist imperialism are not at all what we observe today. The Roman Empire no longer exists. Imperialism as a stage in capitalism is the only form of imperialism that exists at present, which is why we need to analyze it as such. I am thinking about imperialism critically, that’s why I analyze it as a material system and study it, rather than reduce it to a vibe. Do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
No, I’m using the original and developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it.
Ok. Again, I’m going to have to stop you right here, and call bullshit on your entire argument.
You cannot claim that this interpretation is both “the original” definition AND the “developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it”, at the same time. That’s just bullshit.
The original definition predates Capitalism itself, and even further predates Socialism. It’s one thing to claim that a developed understanding of imperialism now includes the way Capitalism influences imperialism…but you can’t claim that imperialism no longer exists without Capitalism.
That is simply incorrect. And thousands of years of human history attest to that. You cannot just hand-wave off all the previous understanding of what defines imperialism, just because you’ve defined a new tactic for how imperialists dominate other nations. That is absolutely absurd.
The fact that you don’t see how flawed that entire argument is, either means you don’t understand what you’re saying, or you don’t care that it makes no sense.
The broad characteristics of imperialism as a stage in capitalism were observed by Hobson. Lenin then codified it and created the basis of the theory, that still holds up today. As conditions have evolved, Nkrumah, Cheng Enfu, and more have carried this same basic analysis to modern, contemporary conditions, such as the transition from European supremacy to Statesian supremacy.
The Roman Empire had a system of imperialism that, in function, is entirely different from modern imperialism. They could just as easily be understood as entirely different words, as they function entirely differently, same with early tribal communism and future, highly industrialized communism.
I’m not handwaiving history, I am definitively stating that the imperialist stage of capitalism only came to be in the turn of the 20th century. It may be similar in some ways to previous forms of imperialism, but these forms no longer exist and are relics of history.
My argument isn’t flawed, you’re more than capable of comprehending it. Again, do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
Lol! None of that has anything to do with “redefining Imperialism” itself. That is talking specifically about Capitalism. The two concepts can and do exist independently from each other.
I even agree with the concept that Capitalism will always trend towards imperialistic ambitions. That’s a fundamental aspect of how Capitalism functions. And I also agree that the way Capitalists will utilize Imperialism is different from more classical examples.
But when you start telling me that “it doesn’t count as imperialism unless it adheres to only those specific characteristics”…then I call bullshit. You can absolutely still have Imperialism without requiring all those criteria that are specific to Capitalism.
And I absolutely stand by my assertion that Russia is engaged in their own form of imperialism. That definition hasn’t changed. Not even according to the people you keep quoting. Their analysis only expands on that definition to include how Capitalism impacts its use.
Your definition of “imperialism” as it relates to Russia is so vague it would also apply to the Statesian north annexing the confederacy, or Burkina Faso kicking France out. All you really mean is that Russia is an active player on the global stage, but that isn’t inherently a bad thing. Imperialism as a system is a well-understood stage in capitalist development, that itself is bad, and is the biggest obstacle to socialism and human progression. Not Russia, which is actively working against said imperialist system.
Again, Russia is not exploiting the global south, and is actively working in the interests of the global south in contesting imperialism as a global system.
It’s not “so vague”. It’s literally the definition of imperialism.
Imperialism: a state policy or practice of extending a country’s power and dominion over other nations or territories. It is primarily achieved through direct territorial conquest, military force, or by gaining heavy political and economic control over the region.
How is that vague? And how does that not describe invading and occupying Ukraine, Georgia, and Chechnya? Or, engaging in political interference campaigns all across Europe and Central Asia?
You can pretend all you want, that these things “didn’t happen”, or “don’t mean what they mean”…but that would be completely disingenuous. Russia is an Imperialist state, which aims to expand its influence and territory, by any means necessary. Whether that’s economic influence, political interference, or direct military aggression.
You are redefining imperialism. I’m following imperialism as it was first analyzed by John A. Hobson as it was arising in its modern form, then correctly carried forward and codified by Lenin, then advanced to the modern day by people like Nkrumah and Cheng Enfu. Imperialism is characterized by the following:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
These are the mechanisms by which imperialism functions today, and they do not apply to Russia. Russia is largely a commodity exporter, with a paltry sum of finance capital, and no colonies nor neocolonies. Russia is not economically exploiting the global south, either. It is not colonial, nor neocolonial, nor imperialist.
Russia is governed by nationalists. Fascist is cutting it a bit, but I won’t hotly contest that like I would the farcical claims that it is imperialist. Fascism is best understood as capitalism in decay, the logic of colonialism applied domestically. Russia doesn’t quite fit that, though it is squarely nationalist and capitalist, and certainly not imperialist.
Lol! So you’re using a “redefined” definition of Imperialism, written by people who don’t want to be defined as imperialists?
Just tossing thousands of years worth of actual human history out the window and proclaiming all previous definitions of imperialism, obsolete? That’s the definition you’re going with, and that’s it? Period.
Obviously there’s no point in continuing this conversation. You have your preconditioned biases, and you have no intention of using any critical thought to question whether they are valid. Got it.
No, I’m using the original and developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it. Lenin famously overthrew Tsarist Russia, established socialism, and got rid of Russia’s imperial holdings, after writing Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism. Kwame Nkrumah was a Ghanaian that fought against neocolonialism, and wrote Neocolonialism, the Last Stage of Imperialism, and Cheng Enfu is one of China’s top economists and theorists of neoimperialism.
Prior forms of pre-capitalist imperialism are not at all what we observe today. The Roman Empire no longer exists. Imperialism as a stage in capitalism is the only form of imperialism that exists at present, which is why we need to analyze it as such. I am thinking about imperialism critically, that’s why I analyze it as a material system and study it, rather than reduce it to a vibe. Do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
Ok. Again, I’m going to have to stop you right here, and call bullshit on your entire argument.
You cannot claim that this interpretation is both “the original” definition AND the “developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it”, at the same time. That’s just bullshit.
The original definition predates Capitalism itself, and even further predates Socialism. It’s one thing to claim that a developed understanding of imperialism now includes the way Capitalism influences imperialism…but you can’t claim that imperialism no longer exists without Capitalism.
That is simply incorrect. And thousands of years of human history attest to that. You cannot just hand-wave off all the previous understanding of what defines imperialism, just because you’ve defined a new tactic for how imperialists dominate other nations. That is absolutely absurd.
The fact that you don’t see how flawed that entire argument is, either means you don’t understand what you’re saying, or you don’t care that it makes no sense.
The broad characteristics of imperialism as a stage in capitalism were observed by Hobson. Lenin then codified it and created the basis of the theory, that still holds up today. As conditions have evolved, Nkrumah, Cheng Enfu, and more have carried this same basic analysis to modern, contemporary conditions, such as the transition from European supremacy to Statesian supremacy.
The Roman Empire had a system of imperialism that, in function, is entirely different from modern imperialism. They could just as easily be understood as entirely different words, as they function entirely differently, same with early tribal communism and future, highly industrialized communism.
I’m not handwaiving history, I am definitively stating that the imperialist stage of capitalism only came to be in the turn of the 20th century. It may be similar in some ways to previous forms of imperialism, but these forms no longer exist and are relics of history.
My argument isn’t flawed, you’re more than capable of comprehending it. Again, do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
Lol! None of that has anything to do with “redefining Imperialism” itself. That is talking specifically about Capitalism. The two concepts can and do exist independently from each other.
I even agree with the concept that Capitalism will always trend towards imperialistic ambitions. That’s a fundamental aspect of how Capitalism functions. And I also agree that the way Capitalists will utilize Imperialism is different from more classical examples.
But when you start telling me that “it doesn’t count as imperialism unless it adheres to only those specific characteristics”…then I call bullshit. You can absolutely still have Imperialism without requiring all those criteria that are specific to Capitalism.
And I absolutely stand by my assertion that Russia is engaged in their own form of imperialism. That definition hasn’t changed. Not even according to the people you keep quoting. Their analysis only expands on that definition to include how Capitalism impacts its use.
Your definition of “imperialism” as it relates to Russia is so vague it would also apply to the Statesian north annexing the confederacy, or Burkina Faso kicking France out. All you really mean is that Russia is an active player on the global stage, but that isn’t inherently a bad thing. Imperialism as a system is a well-understood stage in capitalist development, that itself is bad, and is the biggest obstacle to socialism and human progression. Not Russia, which is actively working against said imperialist system.
Again, Russia is not exploiting the global south, and is actively working in the interests of the global south in contesting imperialism as a global system.
It’s not “so vague”. It’s literally the definition of imperialism.
How is that vague? And how does that not describe invading and occupying Ukraine, Georgia, and Chechnya? Or, engaging in political interference campaigns all across Europe and Central Asia?
You can pretend all you want, that these things “didn’t happen”, or “don’t mean what they mean”…but that would be completely disingenuous. Russia is an Imperialist state, which aims to expand its influence and territory, by any means necessary. Whether that’s economic influence, political interference, or direct military aggression.
Every single part of that definition applies.