China’s revenge for that opium business
I argue that vaping is far far worse than cigarettes given that the ability to “smoke” indoors is much greater.
I recently quit smoking after 6 or so years. I had no choice due to $$ and problems maintaining a state id (super fucking hard if you don’t have a physical address mailbox). I used to walk 3 to sometimes 15 miles a day as long as I had smokes. It was forcing me to get the fuck outside multiple times a day. Chain smoking plus cardio seemed to have a extremely positive effect on my blood pressure, because when I quit smoking, I completely stopped going outside 100%, save it for a minute or two throwing out the trash. My blood pressure SKYROCKETED and remains so ever since I was forced to quit smoking 🚬. Crazy but true.
I had literally zero issues going through the quitting process thanks to the nicotine gum (niccorette branded gum, the Amazon off brand had zero sweetener). It completely killed off the intense cig cravings I would usually get during no smokes periods. After a month and a half, I completely stopped going for the gum without even thinking about it. Done and done.
I’m constantly hearing others switch to vaping to stop smoking. I imagine if I was vaping, my addiction to nicotine would be much worse than with smoking, because the temptation to smoke (vape) would be easier to succumb to if I were able to smoke (vape) indoors. Above all, it is the nicotine that drives the urge to smoke (vape), it changes certain brain receptors and it’s irreversible. It takes many years for the receptors to return to normal after smoking cessation, at least that’s how it was for me the first time I quit smoking around age 21 two decades ago. Back then I quit cold turkey and it took 2 years for the random cig cravings to go away.
I’ve found quitting vaping is easier for the cravings than with cigarettes, because the tobacco has other stuff in it that makes the craving intense when I don’t have those, but vaping is something that I can set down and not be bothered so much. Circumstances of the present moment are particularly stressful and I’m working on staying sober, too, so as I’m alone right now, I’m smoking, but I’m only smoking 3-4 puffs before putting it out. I agree, the ease at which I can grab a vape would make it easier to take a small hit, and I would instinctively do that, but under ideal circumstances, vaping has made it easier to set it down for an extended period of time before stress really took off.
Nicotine is a potent antidepressant after it’s processed into cotenine in the liver. The times are very depressing, of course antidepressants are popular
And we STILL don’t know the long term effects!
Atomizing solutions in a mix of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine is often how inhaled steroids for weak lungs is delievered. Nicotine is a well studied stimulant. Pharmacutical grade flavorings are not proven safe to inhale but everything else is almost certainly orders of magnitude safer than igniting plant matter and inhaling it.
Wrong. Propylene glycol is not inhaled, the heated result of propylene glycol is inhaled, dihydroacetone, a known carcinogen.
Nicotine promotes tumor growth.
Do not educate yourself on social media.
Tell me at what temperure that reaction happens because everything I’ve read and experienced shows the cotton wicking the solution would start to burn far before that conversion. If PG easily broke down it would not be used to treat lungs.
Yh but different companies put different things in their vape liquid (so I heard) so it’s painful to even compare the long term effects of all these diff combinations :)
The ‘different things’ is just the flavoring. You just need to A) Study how much, if any, of the flavoring survives atomization B) Study any resulting products from vaporizing the flavoring, and C) Compare that to the already available data on said flavoring via other intake methods. Nearly all the flavoring used is also used in the food industry and has anywhere from 150 years to 20 years of data on potential harm.
The only two we know cannot be used in vaping that is comically harmless via all practically other delivery methods is Vitamin E acetate and Vitamin C. Pretty much everything else tried appears to metabolize in similar ways.
So vaping is basically harmless! :D
No nicotine is still a potential carcinogen and has high toxicity in general; and people with hyperactive immune systems that also have any preexisting breathing problems should avoid vaping as, just with high relative humidity caused by weather, your immune system can over produce mucus causing difficulty breathing.
Everything in your comment is incorrect. Flavorings are coming out of Chinese factories and no one knows, or checks, what they are or if they are safe. No one regulates anything in vapes. You think a factory in China cares what you suck on all day?
The heated product of vape propylene glycol and vegetable glycerol is dihydroacetone, a known carcinogen of significant concern in sunblock formulas, but that’s topically applied. You want to inhale that in huge volumes deep into your lungs? Good luck!
References with big words: the levels and carcinogenic effects of vapes is the largest growing research area in oncology and lung fibrosis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214750024002610
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0278516
Everything in your comment is incorrect. Flavorings are coming out of Chinese factories and no one knows, or checks, what they are or if they are safe. No one regulates anything in vapes. You think a factory in China cares what you suck on all day?
This is just racism. Legitimately. Get help. That aside;
While prepackaged vapes are popular, they are far from the only type sold or used, especially by chronic users. Most people that vape long term do not buy disposable; and the juice they use is almost always produced in country, regardless of country, since its far cheaper that way (avoids tariffs).
For the slightly more casual user they use disposable cartridges inside of a vape pen, the cartridges are almost always filled in-country, as it’s the cheapest method. So again, not the scary chinese men doing unethical things to your children’s lungs. Seriously. Get some help for your racism. Jesus fucking christ.
The final category is what you are thinking of when you saw the scary propaganda videos of those evil chinese factories making all-in-one disposable vapes… which are still tested by multiple regulatory agencies before they hit shelves, in all countries in which they are sold, because nicotine products are amongst the most regulated products in the developed world. Yes, China has health agencies, yes they cover nicotine products, yes it’s tested even for the foreign market, if you think otherwise yes you are actually racist. The Chinese government is on some grand conspiracy to kill the white man, and you should feel bad for believing that.
The heated product of vape propylene glycol and vegetable glycerol is dihydroacetone, a known carcinogen of significant concern in sunblock formulas, but that’s topically applied. You want to inhale that in huge volumes deep into your lungs? Good luck!
…And yet it’s safe enough to be in every single vaporized medicine! Across the world! Imagine that, it’s almost as if the fear mongering on this point is from people who have never touched a medical textbook. Just google either of those compounds + steroids. Congrats, even the AI will tell you its a normal thing.
References with big words: the levels and carcinogenic effects of vapes is the largest growing research area in oncology and lung fibrosis.
It sure is. From your links, vapes without Vitamin E acetate do not yet have any correlation with chronic lung conditions. Guess which vapes did have Vitamin E Acetate? The off-market THC vapes sold in Europe for like a year a full decade ago.
Guess what will happen when all regulation stops because vapes are banned? People will cut THC vapes with Vitamin E Acetate in Europe again, and more people will get lung fibrosis than are getting it now.
Imagine that, outright banning a good makes it more dangerous.
Vape marketing pretty much undid all the progress made to get people to stop smoking.
Honestly I see it as this kinda fucked up thing that’s pure capitalism greed.
Get people dependent on a super addictive chemical that has withdrawal symptoms as low as 1 hour intervals.
People spend a ton of money just to not feel the withdrawal symptoms.
It’s bad for health. It offers nothing.
Its barely a stimulant.
Just have some caffeine. It’s less expensive and not bad for your health. (In small quantities).
I’ve got two teen nieces vaping.
They think it’s cool. All their friends do it.
I really thought the next generations were going to be lucky they weren’t chained to a subscription that’s scraping years off their life and pocket. But I guess not.
Fuck big tobacco.
Big tobacco owns the vape companies and funds bots across social media and idiots just parrot the lie they are safe, especially if they are already addicts.
You can’t discuss facts about drugs to junkies. There is no shortage of Lemmings telling you huffing huge quantities of random chemicals at high concentration is safe.
I don’t get this defence of drugs or the industries that produce this plight on the people.
Being dependent on a drug doesn’t mean you were stupid or have no self control.
It just means you were a victim of manipulation.
We all have been manipulated at some point. It’s unfortunate but when we are educated about how it was done we can do something about it.
You have a choice. Acknowledge that you have became a victim of this manipulation and get free.
Or stay a prisoner.
Continue to give companies your money. The ones that have stolen your health from you. Years of your life. And forced you into addict behaviors that guide your daily actions.
Remember that it gets a little easier every day to break free. The hardest is the starting.
There are also temporary medications to help with the withdrawal symptoms. Doctors will prescribe them. They have pretty good success. You have options. You don’t have to do it alone or deal with the body withdrawal effects.
It’s bad for health.
True.
It offers nothing.
False. It’s actually most addictive to those who it offers the most. Hence, ADHD risk of smoking is much higher. It’s not just impulsivity, but also the short term mental benefits that help reinforce smoking.
I mean, this is sample of one, but I maybe smoked 2 packs of cigs around my 19-21 yo and I never got hooked, always regretted the smell and mild burns, never felt any peppier, mostly nausea. Even tried a pipe a few times.
Got diagnosed - obvious in hindsight - ADHD in my 30s. I can’t stand the smell of smokes these days and I can’t fathom why people still use them (or vapes).
Even if nicotine has medicinal value, recreational doses (high) mixed with many other chemicals with the aim of causing addiction is way more detrimental than helpful.
There is health research showing indication of cancer increases. Though vaping is relatively new and it may take another 20 years to learn the full scope of the harm.
At present there are much safer alternatives for all of the issues you listed.
It’s also important to note that treating withdrawal symptoms like anxiety and ADHD-like symptoms is not treating those conditions.
It causes them through withdrawal effects and then relieves them. It’s part of the mechanism of addiction.
After a while people believe the drug fixes a bunch of their problems when the drug caused the problems or exasperated them to the level they currently are at.
This same phenomenon is noted with marijuana use.
Long term use increases anxiety. Though many daily users report that it helps anxiety. The truth is it makes anxiety worse over time , which in turn increases the person’s dependence on using the drug to handle their increasingly dysfunctional levels of anxiety that they did not have before they started using.
You may not be surprised to learn that even prescription drugs like Xanax has the exact same effect and course of action on people.
Long term use increases anxiety and subsequently makes individuals even more dependent on the drug.
There are no shortcuts or easy fixes when it comes to drugs. They all build tolerance. Which creates withdrawal. Which is literally an opposition in the body to combat the drug and return it to the previous state. All drugs inevitably make whatever problem they treat, worse.
But we still use them because their benefit out weighs the cost in most situations. Especially for people struggling with daily functioning.
People with medical conditions.
But as a general rule, it should not be used to treat mild problems as it will make them worse.
Interesting. I assume you mean drugs as in psychoactive substances and not medication in general, right? I’d like to read up on this, do you have any sources? Particularily for these two bits:
Long term use increases anxiety and subsequently makes individuals even more dependent on the drug.
All drugs inevitably make whatever problem they treat, worse.
All drugs work this way. Medicinal and psychoactive. Even poisons/toxins.
Any chemical that changes the body’s base functioning.
Some drugs build tolerance and subsequently dependence, faster than others.
Especially drugs that provide euphoric and energy effects (increases and decreases). What some people call narcotics. Even though that isn’t really a drug effect category , only a legal one.
Even taking a drug to reduce cholesterol will technically cause it to increase overtime.
It’s why people have to get their medication doses adjusted all the time. It’s why stopping prescription drugs cold turkey for things like blood pressure or diabetes can have very serious risk. (Depending on the dose and how long the person had been taking it.)
But again. Not all drugs build tolerance at the same speed.
And prescription drug dosage is designed to reduce tolerance while still delivering health effects.
(Well, most are. Many opioid companies appear to have intentionally and knowingly made high dose drugs with euphoric effects to increase dependence. There are opioid drug formulas that don’t have as strong euphoria effects but they chose to sell the ones that do, knowing full well it increases dependence). -thats another conversation
That’s not the case with recreational use. As people tend to use high doses that also increase the speed of tolerance building.
The modern thc business of gummies, vapes, candy, and such follow the tobacco industry leads and have massive quantities of THC in their products. This is intentional. To get people addicted by fast tracking body tolerance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_withdrawal
Withdrawal and tolerance are both a product of the same mechanism in the body.
All types of drug chemicals cause this mechanism in the body. It’s part of how body homeostasis works. There is no drug that is exempt from it.
deleted by creator
If my grandma had wheels, she’d be a bicycle
Title is very confusing, e-cigs and vapes are very much not the same thing and it makes it look like they areI hereby retract this statement, apparently its only me and my friendgroup who call a “heated tobacco product” an e-cig. I think it can be seen where the confusion was caused.
I thought they were the same thing. What’s the difference?
Umm yes they are.
They very much are the same thing.
“You’re on it all the time. With cigarettes, you might have said ‘I’ve only got five minutes, that’s not enough,’ and then you didn’t spark up after all. I don’t even have to go outside to vape,” Antonia says. When would she stop using e-cigarettes? “Right now, I feel like it’s doing me more good than harm. But if I got pregnant, I’d stop immediately.”
I hope this person gets help
vapes need to have a major crackdown
no more ads
no more sugary flavours
vapes need to have a major crackdown
no more ads
no more sugary flavours
As a first step, ban disposable vapes.
There is literal tons of electronics and lithium batteries getting thrown in the trash because of that bullshit.
I don’t even have to go outside to vape
Because you’re an asshole, maybe.
Vapes smell, but not like smoke. Sometimes you can’t even tell when you go to someone’s room.
You will still get residue on your walls over time. Doing it once won’t cause harm, but prolonged indoor use is just shitty for everyone.
The smell is not the issue here, you still get second-hand smoke from nicotin into your lungs, even if it’s a smaller concentration.
I’ve had it first and second-hand, it smells like a cheap candle.
But if I got pregnant, I’d stop immediately.
Lol, no you won’t.
Both of the mothers of my children quit smoking and drinking when the got pregnant.
Bros got multiple baby mamas?? Baller
Yeah it’s usually a while until the first test
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. Southern Europe (and I would count France under this too especially culturally) and Eastern Europe smoke a lot more. In Holland and Germany and the Nordics it’s a lot rarer.
I think the difference is cultural. Those countries tend to be more laid-back while the further north you go the more serious people are about life and rules. Just as an example, if your whole street has green front doors in Holland and you paint yours blue, you can bet you will get a visit from some local council pencil pusher ordering you to change it right back. In Spain you just do whatever the fuck you please with your own house. The only thing you get complaints about are actual dangers (eg plaster falling from the facade and possibly injuring people).
And I’m not saying that to bash them. In fact I moved from a northern to a southern European country in part because I like the looser outlook 🫶
This is bad journalism. The text refers to research at Oxford as “likely” to case harm. Purely anecdotal without any reference to the source to which it refers other than “researchers”. If they provided a reference to a peer reviewed source, I surely would have chased it up for my own education. Alas the text includes nothing but inflammatory wording like “alarming”. Did good journalism disappear or are we just lowering our standards?
When I went to Europe there were cigarettes butts everywhere, and people smoked like crazy, felt like US in the 70s
People giving you flack for treating Europe like a country but tbh I’ve been to Germany (multiple cities), Spain (Madrid), France (Paris), Netherlands (multiple cities), and Norway (multiple cities) in the last 2 years at least and the only one without a smoking and littering problem was Norway (if I’m recalling correctly).
Been to many of the same and don’t recall a lot of smoking at all honestly. Nor cigarette butts everywhere.
Depends totally on which country. And what demographic you visit.
South and East Europe smoke a lot more than North and West. People outside bars smoke because if they didn’t smoke they’d be inside.
That’s from a European perspective. To me, they all smoke a lot. Shockingly so when one is used to the US. There are regional differences, but it’s more like comparing the size of Lake Constance to Lake Superior: both are huge.
Was Netherlands and germany
Europe the country! - USAsians
Maybe things have changed as it’s been a hot minute, but smoking in France and Portugal was common and casual in public when I was there, the UK was/is draconian about it i will admit
I suppose parents who vape raise kids who vape? Addiction sucks.
It’s way too easy to get nicotine from anyone with the means to buy it for you, so I wouldn’t necessarily blame the parents. Just all around shitty behaviour and good ol’ laissez faire capitalism.
Germany fucking plague here in the states. My son friend I caught vaping. He grown but only 19. Pissed me off. I thought the kids of today had gotten away from that. But no my son said everyone was vaping these days. (But not him) they traded cigarettes for vaping and dumb shits think its better.
It is better though?
Fuck no it fucking just has bad or worse. At least with cigarettes people know to take that shit outdoors. Today people vape with windows rolled up and inside. Had my ex try argue that it just vapor water. Fucking hell if it.
I’ve seen a guy vaping in a restaurant right next to a no-smoking sign. The sign didn’t say “no smoking cigarettes” but he was so full of himself like he had just found a loophole. Those people are crazy.
Junkies
deleted by creator
Get fucked asshole vape are just as bad has smoking cigarettes and I should know was a smoker for 20 years before I quit.
Impressive that you think having smoked imbues you with the knowledge of the long term risk profile of something different.
Ah, so let’s ignore all the data on vape effects on lung fibrosis and production of DHA, a known carcinogen. Let’s wait until cancer rates mysteriously increase in younger people.
Keep sucking the money pipe telling yourself everyone is stupid except you.
Oh well if it has some risks I guess that’s the same thing as having the same level of risk as smoking. 10% and 30% are actually identical because they both end in %
