Russia is self-interested in opposing the imperialist system dominated by the US. It isn’t ideologically aligned with socialism, but it is practically aligned with socialists in overthrowing imperialism. The Russian bourgeoisie is nationalist, not imperialist, as there simply isn’t space for Russia to colonize as the west has the entire imperialized world under its thumb.
Capitalism and imperialism are essentially the same thing, lack of opportunity for imperialist projects is in no way evidence of opposition to imperialism. If you believe the elites in Russia have any ideological objections to imperialism then I have a bridge to sell you.
Nationalism (like all populist ideologies) exists purely as a means of controlling the masses, the oligarchs who control every capitalist state are interested only in how much money/power they are personally able to amass.
Imperialism is a stage in capitalist development, it is not the same thing as capitalism. Mexico isn’t imperialist, for example. The lack of ability to be imperialist means Russia is on the side targeted by imperialism, and for its own self-interest is working against the very system targeting it. This is why it’s helping Cuba, trading heavily with socialist countries like China, and supporting the Alliance of Sahel States in kicking out France. Ideology isn’t the reason for Russia’s anti-imperialism, its geopolitical context is.
As for nationalism, you oversimplified it dangerously. Nationalism against imperialism and colonialism is progressive, nationalism preserving imperialism and colonialism is regressive. Palestinian nationalism is a progressive movement against settler-colonialism and genocide, and weakens the international imperialist movement.
Returning to Russia, the nationalist bourgeoisie is interested in opposing imperialism out of their own self a preservation. They aren’t good people, but they are backed into a corner by a common threat. Russia is not an imperialist country, it already succeeded in a nationalist revolution in the 90s against imperialism and as such needs to have a socialist revolution to completely liberate itself.
It wasn’t a true revolution, but it was when the nationalists kicked out the liberals who were letting Russia be plundered by the west in “Shock Doctrine.” Putin’s party took power precisely on a nationalist platform, kicking out the compradors, and thus earned legitimate popularity among the Russian people and western demonization.
Capitalism is a global movement, the idea that elites of different nation states are ‘at war’ with one another is an illusion designed to keep the masses fighting amongst ourselves rather than against our common enemies: i.e the capitalist class. This has never been more clear than today, with the US president doing everything he can to support his allies in Russia.
In universalizing imperialism, you’re erasing it’s actual character.
Capitalism by its very nature is a system of accumulation. The fact that Russia is not imperialized by the west means the west is working to open Russia’s markets by force. This isn’t unique to Russia, it’s just that Russia is the topic here.
Trump is not a Russia ally. The two countries stand opposed on the emerging multipolar world. What Trump is forced to recognize is industrial and millitary power, which Russia is still rising in while the imperialist countries de-industrialize.
The capitalist class is the enemy. However, what you are doing is erasing imperialism as a stage in capitalism, vulgarly reducing it to being synonymous with capitalism and therefore either universally applicable, ie Burkina Faso would be imperialist, or a simple policy preference by some states, essentially Kautsky’s error. Neither are accurate. In eliminating national distinctions between the capitalist class, you eliminate proletarian internationalism.
Imperialism is a stage of capitalism, an essential stage in which all capitalists would engage if only given the opportunity: whether they be from America, Russia, Mexico, or even Burkina Faso. Ownership of the means of production (or owing shares in the corporations that own the means of production) is available to capitalists of every nationality.
If Trump isn’t an ally of Russia’s capitalists then why did he declare that Russia posed no cybersecurity threat to the US and then dissolve the wing of the pentagon that worked to counter such a threat.
The idea that denying the fact that the capitalists have no personal belief in nationalism somehow magically negates international solidarity is nonsensical: the truth is that nationalism is just codified xenophobia, and is a tool used by the capitalists (and relentlessly promoted through their mass media empires) in order to divide the workers, this preventing cooperation across national and ethnic ‘borders’.
Edit to add: Russia’s markets were opened to capitalists 35 years ago (which was the point of my original post on this thread), the idea that Russia is somehow separate from the global imperialist program is pure disinformation.
Nobody is arguing that Russia would not engage in imperialism if given the opportunity. The point being driven home is that they do not have that opportunity, and as such are targeted by imperialists. This puts them on opposing sides. Again, it’s purely self-interest, not ideology.
As for Trump, this is just BlueAnon conspiracy theory. Trump is self-interested. If Trump was a Russian ally, Trump would have erased sanctions and forced an end to the Russo-Ukrainian war, would have dissolved NATO already, and more.
As for capitalists not having a “belief” in nationalism, that’s not at all what I mean. The national bourgeoisie are those that are largely constrained within the domestic markets, not international financiers. Think the people that own factories, vs. the ones owning Blackrock. The national bourgeoisie of countries under threat of imperialism have aligned interests with the proletariat and peasantry in opposing imperialism. They are still obstacles to socialism, but are progressive against imperialism.
Nationalism in the imperial core protects imperialism, but national liberation in the global south opposes imperialism. Palestinian nationalism is progressive, as is the nationalism of Burkina Faso, as was Vietnamese and Cuban nationalism. The National liberation movement is a progressive one against imperialism and therefore assists the transition to socialism.
As for Trump, this is just BlueAnon conspiracy theory. Trump is self-interested. If Trump was a Russian ally, Trump would have erased sanctions and forced an end to the Russo-Ukrainian war, would have dissolved NATO already, and more.
But he has tried his hardest to do all of tgose things. The only reason he hasn’t succeeded (yet) is because he isn’t a dictator and so doesn’t have absolute power (again, yet).
The national bourgeoisie are those that are largely constrained within the domestic markets, not international financiers.
The petty bourgeoisie are themselves part of the working class, much as they may deny it.
Nationalism in the imperial core protects imperialism, but national liberation in the global south opposes imperialism. Palestinian nationalism is progressive, as is the nationalism of Burkina Faso, as was Vietnamese and Cuban nationalism. The National liberation movement is a progressive one against imperialism and therefore assists the transition to socialism.
I don’t agree with this at all, ‘nationalist solidarity’ is a trap designed to pervert true class solidarity. The revolution is either international or it is doomed to fail.
I think we basically have to agree to disagree, though I do commend you for taking the time to have an actual discussion, rather than just accusing me of being a liberal and resorting to cheap insults :)
Trump has not tried his hardest to erase sanctions, end the war in Ukraine, etc. If he wanted, he could do so right now. Trump has no reason to be a Russian ally.
As for the petite bourgeoisie, they aren’t necessarily working class, though they do labor. The national bourgeoisie aren’t the same as the petite bourgeoisie.
As for nationalism in the global south, this is also internationalist. I recommend looking into Marxist analysis of the nation and nationalism, again, Cuban, Palestinian, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. nationalism is all progressive against imperialism in their wars for liberation. Once liberated, then the process of building socialism can genuinely begin (as it has in the socialist countries mentioned).
Russia is self-interested in opposing the imperialist system dominated by the US. It isn’t ideologically aligned with socialism, but it is practically aligned with socialists in overthrowing imperialism. The Russian bourgeoisie is nationalist, not imperialist, as there simply isn’t space for Russia to colonize as the west has the entire imperialized world under its thumb.
Capitalism and imperialism are essentially the same thing, lack of opportunity for imperialist projects is in no way evidence of opposition to imperialism. If you believe the elites in Russia have any ideological objections to imperialism then I have a bridge to sell you.
Nationalism (like all populist ideologies) exists purely as a means of controlling the masses, the oligarchs who control every capitalist state are interested only in how much money/power they are personally able to amass.
Imperialism is a stage in capitalist development, it is not the same thing as capitalism. Mexico isn’t imperialist, for example. The lack of ability to be imperialist means Russia is on the side targeted by imperialism, and for its own self-interest is working against the very system targeting it. This is why it’s helping Cuba, trading heavily with socialist countries like China, and supporting the Alliance of Sahel States in kicking out France. Ideology isn’t the reason for Russia’s anti-imperialism, its geopolitical context is.
As for nationalism, you oversimplified it dangerously. Nationalism against imperialism and colonialism is progressive, nationalism preserving imperialism and colonialism is regressive. Palestinian nationalism is a progressive movement against settler-colonialism and genocide, and weakens the international imperialist movement.
Returning to Russia, the nationalist bourgeoisie is interested in opposing imperialism out of their own self a preservation. They aren’t good people, but they are backed into a corner by a common threat. Russia is not an imperialist country, it already succeeded in a nationalist revolution in the 90s against imperialism and as such needs to have a socialist revolution to completely liberate itself.
Hi, do you have any further reading/recommended sources on the nationalist revolution of the 90s?
It wasn’t a true revolution, but it was when the nationalists kicked out the liberals who were letting Russia be plundered by the west in “Shock Doctrine.” Putin’s party took power precisely on a nationalist platform, kicking out the compradors, and thus earned legitimate popularity among the Russian people and western demonization.
I see. That was certainly a step in the right direction. I’ll look into that further, thanks.
Capitalism is a global movement, the idea that elites of different nation states are ‘at war’ with one another is an illusion designed to keep the masses fighting amongst ourselves rather than against our common enemies: i.e the capitalist class. This has never been more clear than today, with the US president doing everything he can to support his allies in Russia.
In universalizing imperialism, you’re erasing it’s actual character.
Capitalism by its very nature is a system of accumulation. The fact that Russia is not imperialized by the west means the west is working to open Russia’s markets by force. This isn’t unique to Russia, it’s just that Russia is the topic here.
Trump is not a Russia ally. The two countries stand opposed on the emerging multipolar world. What Trump is forced to recognize is industrial and millitary power, which Russia is still rising in while the imperialist countries de-industrialize.
The capitalist class is the enemy. However, what you are doing is erasing imperialism as a stage in capitalism, vulgarly reducing it to being synonymous with capitalism and therefore either universally applicable, ie Burkina Faso would be imperialist, or a simple policy preference by some states, essentially Kautsky’s error. Neither are accurate. In eliminating national distinctions between the capitalist class, you eliminate proletarian internationalism.
Imperialism is a stage of capitalism, an essential stage in which all capitalists would engage if only given the opportunity: whether they be from America, Russia, Mexico, or even Burkina Faso. Ownership of the means of production (or owing shares in the corporations that own the means of production) is available to capitalists of every nationality.
If Trump isn’t an ally of Russia’s capitalists then why did he declare that Russia posed no cybersecurity threat to the US and then dissolve the wing of the pentagon that worked to counter such a threat.
The idea that denying the fact that the capitalists have no personal belief in nationalism somehow magically negates international solidarity is nonsensical: the truth is that nationalism is just codified xenophobia, and is a tool used by the capitalists (and relentlessly promoted through their mass media empires) in order to divide the workers, this preventing cooperation across national and ethnic ‘borders’.
Edit to add: Russia’s markets were opened to capitalists 35 years ago (which was the point of my original post on this thread), the idea that Russia is somehow separate from the global imperialist program is pure disinformation.
Nobody is arguing that Russia would not engage in imperialism if given the opportunity. The point being driven home is that they do not have that opportunity, and as such are targeted by imperialists. This puts them on opposing sides. Again, it’s purely self-interest, not ideology.
As for Trump, this is just BlueAnon conspiracy theory. Trump is self-interested. If Trump was a Russian ally, Trump would have erased sanctions and forced an end to the Russo-Ukrainian war, would have dissolved NATO already, and more.
As for capitalists not having a “belief” in nationalism, that’s not at all what I mean. The national bourgeoisie are those that are largely constrained within the domestic markets, not international financiers. Think the people that own factories, vs. the ones owning Blackrock. The national bourgeoisie of countries under threat of imperialism have aligned interests with the proletariat and peasantry in opposing imperialism. They are still obstacles to socialism, but are progressive against imperialism.
Nationalism in the imperial core protects imperialism, but national liberation in the global south opposes imperialism. Palestinian nationalism is progressive, as is the nationalism of Burkina Faso, as was Vietnamese and Cuban nationalism. The National liberation movement is a progressive one against imperialism and therefore assists the transition to socialism.
But he has tried his hardest to do all of tgose things. The only reason he hasn’t succeeded (yet) is because he isn’t a dictator and so doesn’t have absolute power (again, yet).
The petty bourgeoisie are themselves part of the working class, much as they may deny it.
I don’t agree with this at all, ‘nationalist solidarity’ is a trap designed to pervert true class solidarity. The revolution is either international or it is doomed to fail.
I think we basically have to agree to disagree, though I do commend you for taking the time to have an actual discussion, rather than just accusing me of being a liberal and resorting to cheap insults :)
Trump has not tried his hardest to erase sanctions, end the war in Ukraine, etc. If he wanted, he could do so right now. Trump has no reason to be a Russian ally.
As for the petite bourgeoisie, they aren’t necessarily working class, though they do labor. The national bourgeoisie aren’t the same as the petite bourgeoisie.
As for nationalism in the global south, this is also internationalist. I recommend looking into Marxist analysis of the nation and nationalism, again, Cuban, Palestinian, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. nationalism is all progressive against imperialism in their wars for liberation. Once liberated, then the process of building socialism can genuinely begin (as it has in the socialist countries mentioned).