• Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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    6 hours ago

    Imperialism: The practice of states to enact their power beyond their sovereign borders.

    State-Capitalism: The mode of production where the means of production are owned by the institutions of the state.

    list the victims of Chinese imperialism?

    So, now you want a moralist argument? O.o

    • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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      5 hours ago

      Imperialism: The practice of states to expand their influence beyond their sovereign borders.

      So…WW2. The invasion of Normandy by the allied powers. Imperialism?

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            5 hours ago

            They were done for imperialist reasons, yes.

            What’s your point? I didn’t make a moralist statement about imperialism.

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                4 hours ago

                Not a historian, but from the top of my head: driving back Germany from having too much power in Europe, assisting the British allies and/or preventing the soviets from conquering too much of Germany and turning it “socialist”.

                Do you think the US entered a war, because Hitler was a bad guy? O.o

                • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                  2 hours ago

                  So what I’m getting from this definition is that any military action across a national border for any reason other than, i guess, pure moral altruistim, is imperialism. Is that the conclusion you mean to build to?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      6 hours ago

      Imperialism: The practice of states to expand their influence beyond their sovereign borders.

      Burkina Faso is imperialist for kicking France out of the surrounding region, excellent definition.

      State-Capitalism: The mode of production where the means of production are owned by the institutions of the state.

      Referring to publicly owned, planned economies as “state capitalism” is monstrously misleading. Capitalism is a system of private ownership, marketized distribution, with capital accumulation as the primary goal of capitalists. Using “capitalism” to refer to an administered, planned economy is just a subjectivist argument. State capitalism is a better descriptor for the Republic of Korea and Singapore, capitalist economies with heavy bourgeois state control.

      So, now you want a moralist argument? O.o

      This isn’t a moralist argument, the argument is to get you to actually explain with concrete examples how China is imperialist. Given that you provided a definition of imperialism that makes Cuba imperialist for exporting doctors and aid missions in order to gain favor with surrounding countries, I don’t think it’s necessary to provide any examples of “Chinese imperialism.”

    • 秦始皇帝@lemmy.ml
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      6 hours ago

      Imperialism: The practice of states to expand their influence beyond their sovereign borders.

      Vacous redefinition of the term that vacates it of all it’s explanatory power.

      State-Capitalism: The mode of production where the means of production are owned by the institutions of the state.

      A definition of capitalism that includes no mention of class or class power is meaningless.

      So, now you want a moralist argument? O.o

      Not moralist to ask for proof of the imperialist power doing imperialism. Nice attempt at a dodge though.

      You genuinely become more of a parody of the western “anarchist” with every post.

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        5 hours ago

        Vacous redefinition of the term that vacates it of all it’s explanatory power.

        Definitions aren’t used to explain things on their own. They need to be combined with reasoning to explain anything.

        What’s your definition? Do you have a better one? Ideally one, without any (moral) judgement baked in.

        A definition of capitalism that includes no mention of class or class power is meaningless.

        Again with the motivated reasoning. Also, the class structure can be deduced from the definition without explicitly stating it.

        Not moralist to ask for proof of the imperialist power doing imperialism.

        Now you conflate imperialism with something that needs victims. My definition doesn’t require any definition of victims. You can disagree, but you’d need to supply a definition that is better suited to describe the world.

        You genuinely become more of a parody of the western “anarchist” with every post.

        Insulting me doesn’t make your arguments any more coherent.