• encelado748@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      You deny Bucha with anonymous quora post.

      I use:

      United Nation reports: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern

      Human Rights watch: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/21/ukraine-russian-forces-trail-death-bucha

      Amnesty international: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur50/5561/2022/en/

      Bucha denial is the same as holocaust denial. You are doing real damage and cause lot of suffering for innocent people by justifying war criminals. I do not know how can you disconnect so much from reality to find this acceptable

      • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        Bucha denial is the same as holocaust denial.

        That’s funny, a few years ago that’s what you guys were saying about Uygur genocide denial. Of course, when it turned out no such genocide was happening, even to the point that the UN abandoned that accusation, no lessons were learned and the crimes of the west were projected onto the next opponent instead.

        • encelado748@feddit.org
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          1 day ago

          The UN has not abandoned any accusation on the Bucha massacre. Proof is extensive, sources independently verified. I have made no claim on Uygur as I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss it.

          • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            And once upon a time the UN had not abandoned the story of a Uyghur genocide. Until they did. Your “extensive proof” comes from the same people who swore up and down that Saddam Hussein was building WMDs. When will you learn.

            Let me put it simply.

            Do you think we should trust what Russian-funded sources say about Russia’s enemies? You probably don’t, right? Why not? Because you think they’re genocidal, right?

            Yet you choose to believe what American-funded sources say about America’s enemies, when we have all watched America perpetrate a genocide and install a nazi government in Ukraine to do ethnic cleansing for eight years. This is a matter of indisputable fact.

            But you think what, that these same people are somehow above lying about their rivals? You think the US empire maintains the world’s largest systems of propaganda and consent manufacturing for fun? You think the Epstein capitalists who talk amongst themselves about “population control” are above projecting their crimes onto others? Get real.

            This is the unspoken hypocrisy here: you are deep in the grips of an outrage manufactured by the ultimate perpetrators of everything you profess to oppose, and they are pointing you towards their enemies to make it easier for them to do the stuff you hate.

            • encelado748@feddit.org
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              1 day ago

              If an anonymous post on a blog has the same weight as independent organizations across multiple nations, multiple journalists, military analysts from multiple countries and photographic and videographic proofs, then nothing can be proven and you believe in what you want to be true. You are basing your ideas on faith and partisanship.

              • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                24 hours ago

                “Independent” organizations that all take US think tank money

                “Multiple militaries” all of which just so happen to be aligned with Ukraine in a war. I guess independence doesn’t matter in this case for some reason

                You are basing your ideas on faith and partisanship.

                I am basing my ideas on a sense of pattern recognition that exceeds the span of the last two weeks. You are choosing to trust the side that has claimed, just in my lifetime:

                -Iraq is building nukes (so we need to invade and kill a million people)

                -Afghanistan uh, something something terrorism (so we need to invade and kill a shitload of people)

                -Libya is giving it’s soldiers viagra to rape people (for no reason, just because they’re savages, so we need to topple the government and turn it into a failed state)

                -Syria is killing it’s own people with sarin gas (for no reason, just because they’re savages, so we need to topple the government and turn it into a failed state)

                -North Korea is an evil hell state where there’s literally no electricity and people have to push the trains by hand (so we have to-ah shit, nevermind, they got nukes, let’s just stop talking about them. Also they just hate us for no reason because they’re crazy, do not look into what we did in the 1950s. In fact, do not look into our history with any of the groups and countries that dislike us. They’re just jealous of our freedom.)

                -China is totally, for real, genociding Muslims. No reason given, they’re simply sinister Asians and that’s just the kind of thing they do. No you cannot see evidence, here’s the testimony of one insane German man.

                -Russia has suddenly attacked Ukraine for absolutely no reason, because Vladmir Putin, the one person who controls all of Russia by himself, has been driven mad by the One Ring or something. Also, Ukraine is not run by nazis. Please ignore all the swastikas.

                -Russia is totally, for real, genociding Ukrainians. Evidence? Uhh here’s this massacre in the middle of a war zone in a town that had just been occupied by Azov. It was definitely Russians, and not the seig heiling fascists who just spent 8 years massacring people with our support. It was Russians. Why? Because they’re sinister Asians, and that’s just the kind of thing they do.

                -Hamas totally, for real, beheaded 40 babies and raped a zillion women on October 7. They also baked a baby in an oven. No you cannot see evidence, and in fact you are an antisemite for asking. Now we must commit genocide.

                -Iran totally, for real, mowed down 4,000 12,000 20,000 40,000 nine morbillion protestors in the street. No we do not have evidence, despite the fact that spy satellites are capable of reading a newspaper from orbit and that level of carnage would be visible from space. You must simply trust me bro. We have to bomb 150 schoolkids.

                This is just the major stuff I can recall off the dome right now. And isn’t it a coincidence that the side you’re choosing to trust is the side who’s cultural and political narratives you’ve been marinated in since birth? Whose movies you’ve watched, whose news you’ve consumed, whose views on other people and countries you’ve internalized since you were old enough to understand speech? But I’m sure a lifetime of existing in a pro-imperial western information bubble has had no effect on the worldview of a coldly rational free thinker like you. It certainly hasn’t predisposed you to lend more trust to your own perceived ingroup while conveniently reserving suspicion for pre-designated enemies, or anything primitive like that.

                So let’s say you have to make a bet, you’re putting money down. A lot of money, enough to buy a house. You’re staking your entire financial future on the outcome of this bet. Forget all familiarity and affinity, forget who you want to be right; this is business. Only the facts matter here.

                Which side do you think is more likely to be lying about Bucha?

                Which side has a centuried habit of lying about it’s rivals and projecting it’s crimes onto them?

                Which side operates the largest propaganda machine in history?

                Which of us do you think is more likely to be operating off of faith and partisanship?

                Remember, you stand to lose a lot of money here, so be honest with yourself.

                • encelado748@feddit.org
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                  17 hours ago

                  Which of us do you think is *more likely* to be operating off of faith and partisanship?

                  You are more likely, as you believe I believe in thing I made no claim on. You just add a label on me based on perceived “affiliation”. This is the essence of partisanship. US can support genocide while Russia does the same. The fact you fell the need to pick a side is direct demonstration of partisanship.

                  • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                    14 hours ago

                    Again, which side has a history of both doing genocide and lying about it? And I’m not letting you slink away from this question: which side, gun to your head, do you think is more likely to be lying? You can snidely ignore all my other points and say “no u” all you want, i want to know which side you think is more trustworthy and why.

    • encelado748@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      You reply to the international criminal court and the Ukrainian state with random blog as if your information are somewhat more reliable. Nothing is debunked we have thousands of names and first hand testimony. This is ridiculous; explain to me what is the process you are using to establish truth. It is definitely flawed