I did 10 years as a professional artist, it was the hardest I ever worked in my life, and in the end I gave it up because despite winning awards and having collectors around the world after becoming very good at it, it is very hard to manage and maintain an actual art business in a world that doesn’t take art very seriously, especially with rising costs of things like healthcare and general goods needed to produce work.
There’s a reason why when you go to a fine art museum half of the most famous works and most beautiful pieces that changed the culture of art and even our perception of the world, were made by people who died in abject poverty.
It’s wild we read stories like that and say “Wow that’s a shame, I wish we could have given that artist the accolades and support they needed to survive and know how important they were for the world.” But the moment someone says “Maybe we should support artists” suddenly it’s hand-wringing and whinging about “factory workers.”
This isn’t a question if Ireland’s policy makes you feel good or bad, it’s a question whether or not you think there should be art in the world at all and what you’re willing to accept or change or pay to have that world with actual art in it.
You make it seem like I am against artists when I am for everybody, including artists. Don’t be so angry because you weren’t financially successful in your chosen field. Lots of people don’t make it. Some would say art is suffering and the masters were compelled. My hand-wringing is about imbalance. Find peace my friend, we are all artists.
If you’re actually advocating for fairness and things like universal basic income or even social safety nets, the worst way to do it is to whine like a wounded banshee when one segment or demographic gets it and you don’t, that’s been the number one way all of these programs have been shot down in history.
If it’s successful and helps the country’s economics and quality of life, it will expand, it should be encouraged, not immediately have rocks thrown at it from frustrated people going “why not me?”
Figure out what you actually want and how we get there, and decide if you think you can get everything you want all at once, or if we need to build things to get there.
We are most certainly not all artists, the 2020’s have taught me that much.
Don’t be so angry because you weren’t financially successful in your chosen field
Terrible reading comprehension, I am angry at your whinging against an objectively good advancement, I am not an artist anymore and have no stake in this. I referenced being an artist because I know how unfair the field is and how unappreciated it is by people who have never taken the time to learn shit about art or don’t consider it a real career because they don’t take time to notice how much of their lives have been designed by professional and freelance artists.
That’s the point. People want to simultaneously pretend that art is the trivial pursuit of effete dilettantes but also that supporting artists is unfair since it would take too much sacrifice and effort for any random person to become an artist.
I view arts and humanities as occupying the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. A healthy arts and humanities scene is a sign that society is flourishing. Someone who can pursue those as careers instead of hobbies is self-actualized.
I think public patronage of the arts and humanities is ultimately a good thing, and should happen in addition to all the other, more basic needs. Food, housing, and utilities should be prioritized, and the jobs that provide those things. Then healthcare, education, social work, public servants, parks & rec, etc.
Arts and humanities shouldn’t be neglected, but the fabric of society should be built from the ground up to support a healthy arts scene.
I agree. I think a good starting place would be assessing the cost of living by region or district, and then anyone who makes below that amount should receive a supplementary allowance (funded by the wealthy, of course. If they were paying people fairly then nobody would be making below the cost of living).
Other things should be in the purview of public goods, of course. For countries that don’t already have it, healthcare and education should be top priorities. They should be seen as investments in a healthy society, not as merely handouts to individuals.
Eventually food should be produced and distributed by public (state-owned) entities, at-cost rather than for-profit. But that’s a longer-term goal that needs careful planning and implementation, so pushing too hard for it too soon could derail progress on other priorities like healthcare, education, and guaranteed basic income.
doing it just for already-successful artists is a bit random.
I think a lot of people have radical misconceptions about what it means to be a “successful artist” or even what the spectrum of the field looks like for an average creator.
Everyone in this post feeling salty about this whole story are picturing either struggling deviantart furry artists living in their parent’s house making terrible sonic OC’s for sheltered discord kiddies, or snooty dudes in black turtlenecks having showings of abstract nonsense at galleries in upscale neighborhoods, and nothing in between.
Most artists who survive by art are making minimum wage grinding out graphics and designs for like, edges of price-tag-holders on magazine racks at drug-store checkouts and the other millions of tiny details that go into making our world deliberate-looking and designed, and most of those kinds of artists are working contract/gig work and aren’t even full-time employees and have no benefits or safety nets. Employers hate paying artists, there’s a very real stigma and aversion to paying people for creativity and most companies choose either outsourcing small projects at a time, or more and more choosing to just use AI.
A graphic designer can make a logo that redefines a global company’s image and helps launch a multi-billion dollar venture, and make $200 for it. This is why there’s a very real need to fund art unless we want to hand it over to AI entirely and just let the world dissolve into mediocrity and soullessness.
Yeah, but this specific policy, last I checked, is invite-only. That means it’s the turtleneck guys, or more likely the Celtic fine art equivalent, not gig work graphic designers.
Unless said graphic designer has an in with someone in charge of sending the invites, anyway. Which is another issue with doing it that way.
(It’s a good thing to point out in general, though)
That means it’s the turtleneck guys, or more likely the Celtic fine art equivalent, not gig work graphic designers.
And? That’s fine. The country wants to boost their artistic culture, it has to start somewhere. And honestly, despite me holding it up as a picture of stereotypes, even those “cultural” artists rarely see any measure of actual success despite trying their whole lives to gain some kind of social connection to an art market. Again, this is a matter of deciding if we want art in our lives and where that goal is going to begin.
If celtic sculptors and “art lifestylers” get a UBI, that’s great. It just means the struggling graphic artist is a little closer to also finding some level of support, and the closer the struggling graphic artist gets to social respect and support, the closer YOU get to a broad-scale safety net.
I just will never shit on efforts to socialize our vast resources as a species, at least not until the last billionaire is made into mulch.
This is Lemmy, if it’s not the Ultimate Policy that includes everyone, gives every last person exactly what they want WHILE punishing our enemies, WHILE costing nothing and requiring no effort, it’s trash that should be spat on.
About as much as I made on my best weeks doing art professionally for close to 10 years, despite having won awards and secured collectors around the world.
I worked harder than I ever had in my life to keep that business running, and eventually closed shop because it’s too much work for too little pay or respect.
Ironic since I’m quite sure most of the sock-puppets and astroturfers baiting this post and whinging about “factory workers” are literal kids who have never actually worked a day in their life.
“Fuck my life!”, said factory workers throughout the land.
I did 10 years as a professional artist, it was the hardest I ever worked in my life, and in the end I gave it up because despite winning awards and having collectors around the world after becoming very good at it, it is very hard to manage and maintain an actual art business in a world that doesn’t take art very seriously, especially with rising costs of things like healthcare and general goods needed to produce work.
There’s a reason why when you go to a fine art museum half of the most famous works and most beautiful pieces that changed the culture of art and even our perception of the world, were made by people who died in abject poverty.
It’s wild we read stories like that and say “Wow that’s a shame, I wish we could have given that artist the accolades and support they needed to survive and know how important they were for the world.” But the moment someone says “Maybe we should support artists” suddenly it’s hand-wringing and whinging about “factory workers.”
This isn’t a question if Ireland’s policy makes you feel good or bad, it’s a question whether or not you think there should be art in the world at all and what you’re willing to accept or change or pay to have that world with actual art in it.
You make it seem like I am against artists when I am for everybody, including artists. Don’t be so angry because you weren’t financially successful in your chosen field. Lots of people don’t make it. Some would say art is suffering and the masters were compelled. My hand-wringing is about imbalance. Find peace my friend, we are all artists.
If you’re actually advocating for fairness and things like universal basic income or even social safety nets, the worst way to do it is to whine like a wounded banshee when one segment or demographic gets it and you don’t, that’s been the number one way all of these programs have been shot down in history.
If it’s successful and helps the country’s economics and quality of life, it will expand, it should be encouraged, not immediately have rocks thrown at it from frustrated people going “why not me?”
Figure out what you actually want and how we get there, and decide if you think you can get everything you want all at once, or if we need to build things to get there.
We are most certainly not all artists, the 2020’s have taught me that much.
Terrible reading comprehension, I am angry at your whinging against an objectively good advancement, I am not an artist anymore and have no stake in this. I referenced being an artist because I know how unfair the field is and how unappreciated it is by people who have never taken the time to learn shit about art or don’t consider it a real career because they don’t take time to notice how much of their lives have been designed by professional and freelance artists.
Factory workers are eligible to become artists at any time. It was always allowed.
IIRC this program is invite-only, because yeah, otherwise it’d end up being for everyone.
Edit: And that’s sus, and might just end in people’s cousins getting invited.
Art is a skill that takes time and dedication to cultivate, and often at least a seed of talent to boot.
I can’t just wake up one morning and say “I’m an artist now” anymore than I can wake up and say “I’m a doctor today.”
That’s the point. People want to simultaneously pretend that art is the trivial pursuit of effete dilettantes but also that supporting artists is unfair since it would take too much sacrifice and effort for any random person to become an artist.
I see. Yeah, that makes sense.
I view arts and humanities as occupying the top of Maslow’s hierarchy. A healthy arts and humanities scene is a sign that society is flourishing. Someone who can pursue those as careers instead of hobbies is self-actualized.
I think public patronage of the arts and humanities is ultimately a good thing, and should happen in addition to all the other, more basic needs. Food, housing, and utilities should be prioritized, and the jobs that provide those things. Then healthcare, education, social work, public servants, parks & rec, etc.
Arts and humanities shouldn’t be neglected, but the fabric of society should be built from the ground up to support a healthy arts scene.
Yeah, plus we’ve achieved the economic conditions where everyone’s basic needs can be met. That they are not is a deliberate and vincible evil.
I agree. I think a good starting place would be assessing the cost of living by region or district, and then anyone who makes below that amount should receive a supplementary allowance (funded by the wealthy, of course. If they were paying people fairly then nobody would be making below the cost of living).
Other things should be in the purview of public goods, of course. For countries that don’t already have it, healthcare and education should be top priorities. They should be seen as investments in a healthy society, not as merely handouts to individuals.
Eventually food should be produced and distributed by public (state-owned) entities, at-cost rather than for-profit. But that’s a longer-term goal that needs careful planning and implementation, so pushing too hard for it too soon could derail progress on other priorities like healthcare, education, and guaranteed basic income.
Or the disabled, or the just poor and untalented.
Basic income is the darling of policy wonks of all kinds. But, doing it just for already-successful artists is a bit random.
I think a lot of people have radical misconceptions about what it means to be a “successful artist” or even what the spectrum of the field looks like for an average creator.
Everyone in this post feeling salty about this whole story are picturing either struggling deviantart furry artists living in their parent’s house making terrible sonic OC’s for sheltered discord kiddies, or snooty dudes in black turtlenecks having showings of abstract nonsense at galleries in upscale neighborhoods, and nothing in between.
Most artists who survive by art are making minimum wage grinding out graphics and designs for like, edges of price-tag-holders on magazine racks at drug-store checkouts and the other millions of tiny details that go into making our world deliberate-looking and designed, and most of those kinds of artists are working contract/gig work and aren’t even full-time employees and have no benefits or safety nets. Employers hate paying artists, there’s a very real stigma and aversion to paying people for creativity and most companies choose either outsourcing small projects at a time, or more and more choosing to just use AI.
A graphic designer can make a logo that redefines a global company’s image and helps launch a multi-billion dollar venture, and make $200 for it. This is why there’s a very real need to fund art unless we want to hand it over to AI entirely and just let the world dissolve into mediocrity and soullessness.
Yeah, but this specific policy, last I checked, is invite-only. That means it’s the turtleneck guys, or more likely the Celtic fine art equivalent, not gig work graphic designers.
Unless said graphic designer has an in with someone in charge of sending the invites, anyway. Which is another issue with doing it that way.
(It’s a good thing to point out in general, though)
And? That’s fine. The country wants to boost their artistic culture, it has to start somewhere. And honestly, despite me holding it up as a picture of stereotypes, even those “cultural” artists rarely see any measure of actual success despite trying their whole lives to gain some kind of social connection to an art market. Again, this is a matter of deciding if we want art in our lives and where that goal is going to begin.
If celtic sculptors and “art lifestylers” get a UBI, that’s great. It just means the struggling graphic artist is a little closer to also finding some level of support, and the closer the struggling graphic artist gets to social respect and support, the closer YOU get to a broad-scale safety net.
I just will never shit on efforts to socialize our vast resources as a species, at least not until the last billionaire is made into mulch.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. Better to start sooner than to wait for a consensus on the best way.
This is Lemmy, if it’s not the Ultimate Policy that includes everyone, gives every last person exactly what they want WHILE punishing our enemies, WHILE costing nothing and requiring no effort, it’s trash that should be spat on.
325 euros per week, says the article.
About as much as I made on my best weeks doing art professionally for close to 10 years, despite having won awards and secured collectors around the world.
I worked harder than I ever had in my life to keep that business running, and eventually closed shop because it’s too much work for too little pay or respect.
Ironic since I’m quite sure most of the sock-puppets and astroturfers baiting this post and whinging about “factory workers” are literal kids who have never actually worked a day in their life.