I didn’t know that part. I think everyone involved in the spanish civil war came away jaded though. Which communists did he inform on then, in the UK? Do you recall the years he started?
He didn’t seem to be much of a fan of british intelligence when he was writing his books anyway, he didn’t pull any punches.
Could you elaborate on the “coming away jaded” after the Spanish civil war? I’m interested on an outsider’s opinion (assuming you’re not a Spaniard like me)
No I’m an American with limited knowledge of the spanish civil war, I should know more but I don’t. I read half of for whom the bells toll, by Hemingway, didn’t particularly like the book either not that much of a hemingway fan, I hate him because he hunted big game animals too.
Just everyone you heard about that fought in the Spanish Civil war for the socialists, and I think it was fairly common for idealists to come to spain to fight with them just like europeans did in the American revolution, they all seemed to have lost their idealism and became pessimistic, like Orwell.
Yeah, that’s a common sentiment by idealists facing real, material revolutions. Kropotkin and Babushka Breshko-Breshkovskaya had similar fallouts with the Bolsheviks after 1917.
a big part of it was people seeing first hand the Soviet’s sabotaging the CNT-FAI’s efforts, which I imagine was part of what turned Orwell against communists later in his life.
I still contend that if the Soviet’s supported the Syndicalists as much as the Nazis supported the Nationalists, CNT-FAI would have won the war.
How big of a part was it the Soviets sabotaging the CNT-FAI? Can you point to the extent of sabotage and the main avenues through which it happened? It’s an accusation I hear thrown around a lot, but when I ask about the actual sabotage and what it consisted of and its extent, I rarely receive an answer
If you’re interested, I’d recommend reading through the works of José Peirats, especially The CNT in the Spanish Revolution: Volume 3 which details the numerous different ways that the Soviets suppressed and terrorized the syndicalists, going as far as imprisoning and torturing anarchists and anti-fascists.
“The CNT-FAI was heavily repressed by the Soviets. Source: CNT”. Well, that’s not too convincing, I expected some historical research providing numerical data, not the opinions of a CNT member.
Modern estimates of NKVD murders of whom they considered counter-revolutionaries in Republican Spain during the Civil War show 20 proven murders by a total of 10 agents. The book you quoted has no sourcing and no historical reference, it’s just the ramblings of a CNT member. It propagates disproven fakes such as the supposed torture of Andreu Nin at the hands of the Soviets (categorically disproven), and makes no effort whatsoever to bring any number to the total of anarchists repressed. It talks of 3500 fascists, so Anarchists were likely numbered at most in the hundreds, but again, you provide no numerical evidence for your claims.
It’s unbearable as a Spaniard hearing these hearsay “if the Soviets hadn’t sabotaged the anarchists, they may have won the war”, as if the Soviets didn’t provide the very weapons the Anarchists were using. No effort in actual data recounting is done, just shameless anti-Soviet propaganda based on literal fabrications like the torturing of Andreu Nin, and the total disregard for the actually logical repression of some anarchists and Trotskyists who, knowingly or not, were collaborating with the Nazis as proven by Harro Shulze-Boysen, a German spy who spied for the soviets and was executed when the Nazis uncovered that he had warned the Soviets about a Nazi plot to have an anarchist revolution in Barcelona to weaken the Republic and make the defeat easier: Link
This was the same insurrection independently reported to the Centre by the Soviet embassy in Berlin after receiving an anonymous tip-off from their agent Harro Schulze- Boysen. From contacts on the Luftwaffe General Staff he revealed that German agents had also infiltrated Trotskyists circles in Barcelona with the intention of encouraging their putsch
Now, bring some numerical historical evidence supporting your claim of massive repressions against anarchists by the Soviets which led to them losing the war
He got disillusioned volunteering with the socialists in the spanish civil war. Hemimgway too.
“Got disillusioned” is a very mild term for turning into an MI6 stooge and reporting communists to intelligence agencies, the fucking prick!
I didn’t know that part. I think everyone involved in the spanish civil war came away jaded though. Which communists did he inform on then, in the UK? Do you recall the years he started?
He didn’t seem to be much of a fan of british intelligence when he was writing his books anyway, he didn’t pull any punches.
Wikipedia article on Orwell’s list
Could you elaborate on the “coming away jaded” after the Spanish civil war? I’m interested on an outsider’s opinion (assuming you’re not a Spaniard like me)
No I’m an American with limited knowledge of the spanish civil war, I should know more but I don’t. I read half of for whom the bells toll, by Hemingway, didn’t particularly like the book either not that much of a hemingway fan, I hate him because he hunted big game animals too.
Just everyone you heard about that fought in the Spanish Civil war for the socialists, and I think it was fairly common for idealists to come to spain to fight with them just like europeans did in the American revolution, they all seemed to have lost their idealism and became pessimistic, like Orwell.
Yeah, that’s a common sentiment by idealists facing real, material revolutions. Kropotkin and Babushka Breshko-Breshkovskaya had similar fallouts with the Bolsheviks after 1917.
a big part of it was people seeing first hand the Soviet’s sabotaging the CNT-FAI’s efforts, which I imagine was part of what turned Orwell against communists later in his life.
I still contend that if the Soviet’s supported the Syndicalists as much as the Nazis supported the Nationalists, CNT-FAI would have won the war.
How big of a part was it the Soviets sabotaging the CNT-FAI? Can you point to the extent of sabotage and the main avenues through which it happened? It’s an accusation I hear thrown around a lot, but when I ask about the actual sabotage and what it consisted of and its extent, I rarely receive an answer
If you’re interested, I’d recommend reading through the works of José Peirats, especially The CNT in the Spanish Revolution: Volume 3 which details the numerous different ways that the Soviets suppressed and terrorized the syndicalists, going as far as imprisoning and torturing anarchists and anti-fascists.
“The CNT-FAI was heavily repressed by the Soviets. Source: CNT”. Well, that’s not too convincing, I expected some historical research providing numerical data, not the opinions of a CNT member.
Modern estimates of NKVD murders of whom they considered counter-revolutionaries in Republican Spain during the Civil War show 20 proven murders by a total of 10 agents. The book you quoted has no sourcing and no historical reference, it’s just the ramblings of a CNT member. It propagates disproven fakes such as the supposed torture of Andreu Nin at the hands of the Soviets (categorically disproven), and makes no effort whatsoever to bring any number to the total of anarchists repressed. It talks of 3500 fascists, so Anarchists were likely numbered at most in the hundreds, but again, you provide no numerical evidence for your claims.
It’s unbearable as a Spaniard hearing these hearsay “if the Soviets hadn’t sabotaged the anarchists, they may have won the war”, as if the Soviets didn’t provide the very weapons the Anarchists were using. No effort in actual data recounting is done, just shameless anti-Soviet propaganda based on literal fabrications like the torturing of Andreu Nin, and the total disregard for the actually logical repression of some anarchists and Trotskyists who, knowingly or not, were collaborating with the Nazis as proven by Harro Shulze-Boysen, a German spy who spied for the soviets and was executed when the Nazis uncovered that he had warned the Soviets about a Nazi plot to have an anarchist revolution in Barcelona to weaken the Republic and make the defeat easier: Link
Now, bring some numerical historical evidence supporting your claim of massive repressions against anarchists by the Soviets which led to them losing the war