I mean preferably you’d pick top ones to compare, so best in class from both systems
The topic was about people living paycheck to paycheck and social safety net… So take top ones in that category from both systems and compare them to find the overall winner.
But that doesn’t make sense, you compare among peers in development timeframes where you can, as well as size and location. Nordic countries tend to have good safety nets, but they also fund them from imperialism, and they’ve been developing for a longer period of time. China isn’t imperialist, and it’s only recently been developing. If you’re trying to compare capitalism and socialism as systems, you have to compare their trajectories and where they’ve come from, not static snapshots.
We’re trying to find the best countries right now. You’ll never find good comparable enough countries anyway, there’s always big meaningful differences that can be argued over endlessly.
Right now there’s capitalist countries beating all the socialist ones at what we’re talking about. Like said, theoretically at some point they will be best than every capitalist country. It’s just not right now.
Socialist countries generally have better safety nets, like China. Even Cuba, poor and sanctioned as it is, takes better care of its poorest than capitalist countries do.
Which is true, and requires analyzing them in context of their peer countries. Imperialist countries have inflated living standards due to taking huge amounts of super-profits from the global south, therefore comparison isn’t going to be even anyways. Comparing Cuba with other Latin American countries makes a lot of sense, trying to grab “the best” of each like history is just a static snapshot and doesn’t matter is horrible for trying to see which is better.
I’m just saying that right now the best of capitalist countries beat the best of the socialist ones, at least if that best example is China (which isn’t great tbh). In theory in the future etc. but like right now.
Why would that make any sense for a kind of comparison between capitalism and socialism? Why not compare peers? And additionally, China does have good quality of life, and again is rapidly improving.
Well you’d want to see what’s currently best available. At this time, there’s countries that are doing better than best of socialist countries. Maybe it’ll change at some point, I know theoretically it should. But we don’t want to go into wild speculation
Saying that socialism is a more effective system than capitalism and that socialist countries provide better for the working classes than capitalist ones is the statement I made, and is true. Comparing “the best” (whatever that means) capitalist and socialist countries doesn’t actually answer that. It doesn’t take into account length of time, history, level of development, trajectory, and more, and it especially doesn’t take imperialism into account.
Those best in what we have been talking about the whole time lol. Right now those are capitalist countries. I bet socialism is great and gets better and better but it’s just not at the top yet in this. Unless there’s a better example than China ofc.
You are saying that socialism is better at this particular aspect but all I’m saying the best in it are still capitalist.
What I said:
The topic was about people living paycheck to paycheck and social safety net… So take top ones in that category from both systems and compare them to find the overall winner.
But that doesn’t make sense, you compare among peers in development timeframes where you can, as well as size and location. Nordic countries tend to have good safety nets, but they also fund them from imperialism, and they’ve been developing for a longer period of time. China isn’t imperialist, and it’s only recently been developing. If you’re trying to compare capitalism and socialism as systems, you have to compare their trajectories and where they’ve come from, not static snapshots.
We’re trying to find the best countries right now. You’ll never find good comparable enough countries anyway, there’s always big meaningful differences that can be argued over endlessly.
Right now there’s capitalist countries beating all the socialist ones at what we’re talking about. Like said, theoretically at some point they will be best than every capitalist country. It’s just not right now.
This was the original claim:
Which is true, and requires analyzing them in context of their peer countries. Imperialist countries have inflated living standards due to taking huge amounts of super-profits from the global south, therefore comparison isn’t going to be even anyways. Comparing Cuba with other Latin American countries makes a lot of sense, trying to grab “the best” of each like history is just a static snapshot and doesn’t matter is horrible for trying to see which is better.
I’m just saying that right now the best of capitalist countries beat the best of the socialist ones, at least if that best example is China (which isn’t great tbh). In theory in the future etc. but like right now.
Why would that make any sense for a kind of comparison between capitalism and socialism? Why not compare peers? And additionally, China does have good quality of life, and again is rapidly improving.
Well you’d want to see what’s currently best available. At this time, there’s countries that are doing better than best of socialist countries. Maybe it’ll change at some point, I know theoretically it should. But we don’t want to go into wild speculation
Saying that socialism is a more effective system than capitalism and that socialist countries provide better for the working classes than capitalist ones is the statement I made, and is true. Comparing “the best” (whatever that means) capitalist and socialist countries doesn’t actually answer that. It doesn’t take into account length of time, history, level of development, trajectory, and more, and it especially doesn’t take imperialism into account.
Those best in what we have been talking about the whole time lol. Right now those are capitalist countries. I bet socialism is great and gets better and better but it’s just not at the top yet in this. Unless there’s a better example than China ofc.
You are saying that socialism is better at this particular aspect but all I’m saying the best in it are still capitalist.