• Auli@lemmy.ca
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    11 hours ago

    I think we got civilization despite religion. Religion has been fighting progress all along.

      • Garbagio@lemmy.zip
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        10 hours ago

        You got a source for that claim? Also by your logic slavery or monarchy got us where we are; just because something has historical relevance doesn’t make it good or acceptable in present or future society.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          I’m not really sure what you want as a source. The only civilizations in human history that developed beyond the gens/clan/tribe had some kind of religious law, so there’s numerous field examples of this phenomenon. I supposed it could just be a coincidence that it happened over and over, and that there aren’t counterexamples? That actually seems like the more extraordinary claim.

          This is all value neutral, by the way. I am not saying religion, or slavery, or feudalism, or capitalism are good. I’m only saying that they were stages of historical development that lead us to this point. If history could develop a different way, there’s no way to really test for it. Maybe we’ll find aliens some day that never went through a religious phase of historical development?

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              4 hours ago

              Yes, and it was the invention of religion in the previous 4000 years that allowed humans really take off as a planetary species. That only reinforces my point - hundreds of thousands of years as hunter gatherers with very little change, then only a few thousand years later and we’ve basically conquered the world. Religion doesn’t have to be real to be a useful tool for organizing civilization.

              It’s all made up, but it was a useful fiction when we were still in the nascent stages of historical development.

              • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                you’re welcome to your beliefs but we don’t have examples of civilizations that failed because they lacked organized religion. so I’m dubious.