• Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I’ve been calling out this propaganda since 2016. Dividing the left is an extremely successful tactic.

    • Tinidril@midwest.social
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      2 days ago

      What do Democrats have to do with the left? Especially the Democrats in question.

      Establishment Democrats have shived the left a million times and I never hear this pearl clutching about how they are “dividing the left” from folks like you. When a progressive primaries a corporate Democrat we get told that we shouldn’t mess with incumbents. When a corporate Democrat challenges a seated progressive, the establishment pumps tens of thousands of dollars into the challengers campaign.

      We aren’t “dividing the left”, we are acknowledging a divide between the left and third way neoliberals. Establishment candidates want our votes and especially our donations, but then they want us to sit down and shut up.

        • Tinidril@midwest.social
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          1 day ago

          Neoliberalism is not a left of center political philosophy. We have to right of center parties and a moderately left of center population. That’s why the Democrats are always referred to as the lesser of two evils.

          • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Mathematically, Democrats are by definition left of center. You can’t just place the “center” wherever you want.

            • Tinidril@midwest.social
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              1 day ago

              Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.

              • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                but the center of office holders is a pointless measure

                da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.

                Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.

                One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.

                • Tinidril@midwest.social
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                  1 day ago

                  So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing? No, the center of office holders is not how we measure political leanings. You can go with political theory that defines left and right in a pretty fixed way, or you can go by the center of the population. By either of those standards, the Democrats are moderate right wing.

                  There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans. They are just flawed humans, and there is a reason for the mismatch between where they fall on issues and where they fall on (let’s call them) themes. The themes come from the narratives they receive from our two right wing parties. Ask them about particular issues and they think like individuals. Ask them about themes and they line up with the narratives coming to them from our two right wing parties.

                  • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                    1 day ago

                    So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing?

                    Yes. There’s no universal human left vs right. Political ideologies change over time and place. The far left wing in the Taliban is roughly similar to the far right wing in America.

                    There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans.

                    Gonna have to disagree there.

    • Dragonstaff@leminal.space
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      2 days ago

      Calling people who voted to disenfranchise millions the 'left" is an insult.

      Havent you heard the term “It goes without saying”? I just don’t need to tell you that the sun rises in the east, 2+2=4, or Republicans are evil. But apparently, some of you insist on giving a pass to Democrats, who act like they’re on our side, but continually help make things worse.

      The point is that it’s all kayfabe and just enough Democrats will vote to make things worse or prevent something from getting better. If you only blame Republicans, you’re not paying attention.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        but continually help make things worse

        Funny how you people always conflate “not having the numbers to effectively stop Republicans” with “actively helping Republicans”. Every single time I drill down to ask what specifically the Dems did to make things worse, it’s always “they failed to stop the Republicans”.

        • Dragonstaff@leminal.space
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          2 days ago

          I guess you’re confused because you aren’t listening.

          THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.

          Voting for a bill is actively helping Republicans. Do you need to watch Schoolhouse Rock again?

          what specifically the Dems did to make things worse

          THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.

          Absolutely nobody here is mad that Democrats “failed to stop Republicans”. You need to stop being disingenuous. We’re mad because THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.

          • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            And we circle back around to “Democrats did a bad thing” instead of “a tiny number of Democrats went against the wishes of the party and joined all of the Republicans to do a bad thing”

            Propaganda.

            “The Democrats” did not vote for this bill and implying so is fucking. Propaganda.

            • Tinidril@midwest.social
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              2 days ago

              So, what is the party going to do about it? If the answer is nothing, then the party itself shares the blame. Republicans enforce party discipline while Democrats use a lack of party discipline as an excuse.

              • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                Because the Republicans are fucking fascists and we are not. It’s more difficult to enforce discipline when your party is ANTI authoritarian.