Holy hell, you liberals really have gone completely off the rocker in your corner of Lemmy, huh? I mean, Jesus Christ the shit I am reading in these comments is completely insane.
“Everyone I disagree with is a foreign agent”, say the people whose same views Israel are literally running bot farms about.
“Trump would be worse”, say the people who have admitted that the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable means to an end, as if queer folks are supposed to believe you won’t be their next tool of convenience to be discarded.
“Look at all these policy differences”, say the party who brag about being half Republicans and use their policies.
Y’all are going to lose, and it’s not going to be because of the 100 US leftists on Lemmy.
I’m sure you’ll blame us anyway though, because liberals have objectively abandoned reality.
Look at yourselves. You’ve become MAGA, and don’t even try to deny it. This is the shit you made fun of Republicans for doing for 4 years of Trump. I thought Democracy was about winning votes, not demanding them under threats of violence? Or is this another one of PugJesus’ cronies?
Only comment that make sense here
Ok gaslighter
Yeah, the US elections have a high chance of losing, largely due to large disinformation campaigns not unlike the one your comment forms a part of.
The fantasy world the zero-tolerance high-ground morality angels live in is as dangerous as the one MAGA lives in, and ironically has the same victims. They proudly polish their halos nice and shiny while they let the world burn.
Don’t support genocide, it’s as simple as that!
By the way: Voting isn’t actually support. The American system is not set up in a way where votes actually add to the power of the Presidential office. On the other hand, making a deliberate choice not to act does mean supporting whatever happens without your action, which could be genocide. This means YOU HAVE TO VOTE HARRIS IN ORDER TO NOT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. The socialism angels are hypocrites.
there are two facts about this election
- there are only two outcomes—0.0% chance for a third party win
- both candidates have a bad stance on the genocide
so neither outcome will help with the genocide. acting like voting third party helps in any way shape or form is disingenuous at best. so what should you do?
my argument is that you should vote for the person you can hope to convince on this issue. phone calls, protests, social media, whatever means you have… which of these candidates is more likely to respond to any kind of public pressure about this?
Harris might be responsive, and let’s be honest, she might not be. but you know for a fact that it’s definitely not the fucking orange turd. Natenyahu wants him to win. how can you ignore that?
which of these candidates is more likely to respond to any kind of public pressure about this?
neither. 0.0% chance for either candidate.
i only voted for kamala because she’s a woman and even though she’s an awful candidate at least we can get it out of our collective system, show little girls they can be president, and the neoliberal status quo is probably still better than Trump
i’m not entirely sure on that because I think Kamala is more likely to lead us into a war with Russia… but Trump is more volatile in general I think
Amazing that you at least did the overwhelming obvious right thing even though your reasons are awful
i think breaking the barrier of sex in terms of male/female president is a powerful thing. there’s been so many women throughout history that could have been judith pulgars, politically speaking, and ended up getting pushed into more subservient positions
that’s the main reason. i dont think that’s an awful reason
as for the russian war thing, i rather like living in a pre-nuclear-war society.
It just implies that looking at the candidates the biggest and most important difference you see is that one is a woman.
Like, it’s great that you did vote for that woman as she also happens to be in favour of women having rights, lgbtq+ people having rights, doesn’t want mass deportions, still wants there to be elections in the future and a painfully long list of stark differences like that. It’s just impressive that none of that mattered to you, or that you are unaware of it
i’m more cynical about her. it’s not that i don’t think gay rights and women rights aren’t important. they are. but to me, the primary issues i care about, in order of importance
a) probability of war
b) attitude towards immigrants
c) economic position
d) foreign policy in general
so for example I think Kamala is probably more likely to get us into war than Trump is. That gives points to Trump.
on the immigration front, I don’t have any illusions about where the national conversation is going. I was brought here to this country illegally as a small child. I grew up here illegal and it wasn’t until my early 20s that I managed to naturalize
so i’ve been embedded in immigrant communities, with a lot of illegals sprinkled in, and have been paying attention to immigration news for virtually all of life
i can only think of two politicians who have done something meaningful for illegals. Reagan and Obama. Reagan of course gave amnesty to millions of illegals. Obama enacted the DACA policy, which wasn’t nearly as broad as amnesty, but it was definitely a good thing that helped hundreds of thousands of people. but “immigration reform” has been promised my whole life by DNC and never delivered. best was the half-assed DACA
But let’s look at rhetoric from Biden. During campaign in 2020 he advocated for a “compassionate approach” and was “pushing for immigration reform”. he promised to halt the construction of “the Wall tm”
What about the last couple years? He expanded construction of the wall which he timed with a photoshoot with Customs and Border Patrol at the southern border. He also went on TV and started using the word illegal - which is a term Democrats historically haven’t used. I don’t think it’s offensive or anything- but it’s telling to show how the overton window has sharply been shoved to the right
Now look at Biden’s successor - Kamala - the woman I voted for begrudgingly. go to her website and look at the policies and you will see zilch about compassionate approach or immigration reform. today it’s “security and strong border”
right now over 65% of all Americans (not just GOP) support deporting all illegal immigrants. Something absurd to say even a decade ago. Majority of Americans support a policy which would effectively have the military going around house to house in order to put over 10 million people in camps, which they would stay at for years while the government tries to figure out the complex and expensive logistical challenge of moving millions of people out of the country (Germans had this same problem back in first half of the 1900s. they came up with a controversial solution to that question, of course)
so i’m not saying kamala is equal or worse than trump on this. trump is partly at fault for the rise in this change. but i think long term it won’t make a difference who wins in this field. either way immigrants are screwed, so it doesn’t really matter to me in this election
economic position, i think not gonna matter much. the whole “tax breaks for first time homeowners” from Kamala is yet another bailout to the banks at the expense of regular people. Trump put in sanctions on China, raising prices for Americans… Biden kept them in place and put some more. I don’t think this is much different. the reductionist “tax the rich” is a nice slogan but without meaning. as long as the government has a money tap funneling public money to leeches, no amount of taxes will ever filter down to help the working class
foreign policy in general. again, i don’t see much of a difference. china from above is a good example. iran is another. Obama actually came up with a revolutionary deal- bringing the Iranians back into the fold. Trump torpedoed that deal in spectacular fashion and then moved the American embassy to Jerusalem. Biden maintained the “get fucked” attitude towards Iran and went to Tel Aviv in Oct of last year to bend the knee to Netanyahu.
so to summarize
for the issues i mentioned, which are the ones that matter to me, i think long term the choice of candidate isn’t going to influence anything significantly either way. the zietgiest is headed in a certain direction and i don’t think either candidate has the capacity or willingness to meaningfully change the course of things
so then we get to why did i vote for kamala. because I think it’ll be inspiring to girls and women across the country. it’ll implicitly let them know they are equal and are able to accomplish anything, even the highest office in the country
i think that alone is worth voting for her. and of course Trump is a bit of a wild card and I prefer stability.
Statement: government in Ukraine changed in 2014.
Your response: that new government had the support of the people, therefore that statement is false
This is a non-sequitor. The government either changed or it didn’t. Whether the people supported it or not doesn’t fundamentally change the statement.
I’m starting to think you are a bot, someone with very low reading comprehension, or simply a malicious actor.
If you refuse to engage in this attempt to reach a set of facts we can agree on, then we will never move forward.
I could say the sky is blue and the grass is green and you would yell me I am justifying capitalism’s embrace of carbon emissions and the death of the climate.
Gaza is hardly even an issue on the ballot, you’re picking between slow genocide and fast genocide.
Which one should you prefer slowly genocide by starvation, diseases.
Or
Fast genocide by increased bombing and worse weapons.
I don’t think this is a choice anyone would want to choose from.
Then we agree that Gaza isnt a partisan choice, but to answer your rhetorical I would choose slow simply because there will always be an avenue for justice as long as some of Palestine remains.
Slow genocide is better though. We all get that right?
Certainly gives us more time to try to do something about it, yeah.
Certainly gives us more time to try to do something about it, yeah.
The time to do something about it is during an election. Politicians couldnt care less what you think after they have your vote. They dont need your money.
If there was a part of the election to do something about it that time was the Primaries. The primaries that only like 30M people vote in every election. Right now your choices are between death and more death but also closer to home.
Harris could still change her mind at the last minute.
So you’re going to get Harris to change her stance by making sure she doesn’t become president? And because it was also stated that elections are the time to change them, you also imply she cannot change her mind after election?
Thats some ass logic right there.
Well she can change her stance on the weapons shipments any time she wants. She keeps losing support every day in the polls, so I suggest she stop digging and try something else. Or she is going to lose. Theres a lot of progressives who will vote for her if she stops the shipments and wont vote for her if she stays the course. This is her choice.
You want to talk to someone about ass logic, talk to her.
99 more years at the current rate.
Slow genocide is better
No thanks, genocide is my biggest concern and you dont get to decide it isnt
biggest != only
No shit. Enjoy Trump again, guess liberals have learned nothing from 2016. If you have no progressive policies or stand for none of them, you will not win
One in ten Bernie Bros voted for Trump in 2016. So maybe let’s not talk about people not learning their lessons.
Look what happened lmao. You didnt learn any lessons either I bet
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What a privileged existence you must lead to be able to have a single issue define you.
And you have privilege to say your issues overrule actual human lives. What’s another 50,000 dead Palestinians to you?
Personally I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night voting for someone who had a hand in that mountain of dead children, but you seem fine to ignore atrocities committed in your name.
Don’t blame me, blame Harris for being unwilling to even say something on the issue without walking it back. Nobody is stopping her.
Look at history. The 2003 Iraq war and subsequent occupation resulted in at least 150.000 deaths, at the absolute lowest estimate. The biggest estimate is over a million.
Afghanistan? 176.000
Gulf War? 50.000
Yugoslav war? 130.000
Vietnam War? 970.000 to 3 million.
And those are conflicts that the US was directly involved in with boots on the ground. Few people lost sleep over any of those civilian casualties. Could you even point to Kosovo on a map?
What’s another 50.000 dead Palestinians you ask? A rounding error on a footnote of history. It’s a statistic. And that’s ignoring the fact that this is happening in another country with only indirect US support.
People SHOULD care about the Palestinians. But it’s just not relevant to the day to day lives of average Americans.
This is as short sighted as the president in Don’t Look Up, who was more frustrated about how the giant comet heading to earth was disrupting her election and not about the impending extinction.
What kind of nonsense argument are you making? There were massive protests against these in the US, involving millions of Americans. Millions of Americans protested the Vietnam war, millions protested the Iraq war. There’s protests in every city about Gaza and wall to wall news coverage as it consumed the public attention. I’ve been to all these protests except the Vietnam one.
And it’s not “indirect” support. Biden sent troops into Gaza for that hostage rescue mission and increased troops in the region and has Air Force planes shooting down missiles. That’s also with the US shipping nearly all the bombs dropped in Gaza and using the UN to veto ceasefires. Anyone pretending the US isn’t involved is lying.
It’s sad that the millions of Arab Americans and Muslim Americans don’t count to you. This is a daily issue for us, I’ve gone to the funerals for relatives and watched as CNN aired that Ryan Girdusky character who said Mehdi Hasan should be blown up. That’s mild compared to what we have heard given the last year of Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism and surge in hate crimes. Again, you have such privilege and talk down to others.
You know what’ll end it real quick? Electing a fascist who’ll give Israel the OK to glass the entire fucking middle east and ship them the nukes to do it.
And you have the gall to call someone else short sighted, single issue voter.
Well it’s a moot point now, since everyone in north Gaza will be dead before New Years. We don’t even have to worry about who comes after Biden. Now that he’s a lame duck he won’t even take action to save the Gaza civilians. What excuse does he have left?
What a privileged existence you must have to ignore a genocide
