I would hope if I repeated any Russian propaganda I would get called out on it. Then a discussion could take place on what we know and what is probably fabricated. And there is a place for valid criticism of Ukrane policies I’m sure - blind agreement with any side is ignorant. Obvious there’s a shit ton more of a place for criticism of Russian policies. And context matters. But banning people just because they don’t agree with the exact narrow narrative of a mod is counter productive. Obviously if someone is just blindly repeating garbage noise or is offensive then a ban has its place. But we’ve got to take care not to ruin Lemmy by banning everything that’s not 100% in agreement with the hive mind. That leads to vacuous discourse
Yes I’ve seen Russian apologists say stuff that is completely at odds with everything that I’ve seen reported. I think they’re lying and spewing propaganda, but I know in war that’s fairly normal and the West also spews propaganda. There’s sometimes a grain of truth; sometimes it is diametrically opposite of the truth. And then it can be interesting to dig down to the root message being played. But banning discussion should be reserved only for toxic messages, not just those that you disagree with. I’m sure there are Russians who actually believe Putin is doing the right thing based on the information they’ve been told - isn’t it good to find their sources and prove how they’re lies? They probably won’t admit it on the spot, but you can change minds through communication. It’s at least good to try.
I’ve been banned while specifically saying I do not support Isreal’s genocide. All it takes is saying Palestines shouldn’t call for the genocide of Jews and I’d be called a hasboro, a Zionist and an Israeli appologist. People don’t listen, they just see something that’s not 100% supporting their extreme position and they lash out - and I understand the hate, but there certainly are reasonable opinions that don’t involve revenge genocide, I would think. Banning discussion is stupid. It’s like burning books in libraries that you don’t agree with. Or defunding scientists because you don’t like the answers that the science provides.
But I talked specifically about people justifying settler colonialism and genocide . Don’t make it about yourself
Banning discussion is stupid. It’s like burning books in libraries that you don’t agree with. Or defunding scientists because you don’t like the answers that the science provides.
Wrong analogy. Banning people advocating for invading Ukraine or israel colonizing Palestine is similar to banning nazis, racists and supermasists
But people seem to think I’m justifying genocide when I’m clearly not, I’m just agreeing with everything they say. And they ban ban ban. That is stupid, like burning books.
I 100% disagree with Russia invading Ukraine. It is horrific and stupid. But I would still be interested in talking with someone who supports it to try and understand where the hell they’re coming from. If they just buy into Russian propaganda or worse are clearly spreading it on purpose then there’s no useful conversation to be had, but if they genuinely believe it’s the right thing to do based n something that I don’t know about, I’d love to hear them out, and then presumably try to help them see where they are wrong.
I’m talking about myself because I have been banned from multiple Lemmy subs despite clearly not being one of those settler colonial apologists, but being accused of it for no reason other than I didn’t just blindly agree with everything.
And yes if people lie and ignore facts you can reasonably argue to ban them (I probably wouldn’t, but I understand).
I would hope if I repeated any Russian propaganda I would get called out on it. Then a discussion could take place on what we know and what is probably fabricated. And there is a place for valid criticism of Ukrane policies I’m sure - blind agreement with any side is ignorant. Obvious there’s a shit ton more of a place for criticism of Russian policies. And context matters. But banning people just because they don’t agree with the exact narrow narrative of a mod is counter productive. Obviously if someone is just blindly repeating garbage noise or is offensive then a ban has its place. But we’ve got to take care not to ruin Lemmy by banning everything that’s not 100% in agreement with the hive mind. That leads to vacuous discourse
No context justify settler colonialism and genocide. Tou won’t fins anything in internstional always. Defending stuffs like that are not opinions
Most russian apologists are refuting concrete evidences. Those should be banned
Yes I’ve seen Russian apologists say stuff that is completely at odds with everything that I’ve seen reported. I think they’re lying and spewing propaganda, but I know in war that’s fairly normal and the West also spews propaganda. There’s sometimes a grain of truth; sometimes it is diametrically opposite of the truth. And then it can be interesting to dig down to the root message being played. But banning discussion should be reserved only for toxic messages, not just those that you disagree with. I’m sure there are Russians who actually believe Putin is doing the right thing based on the information they’ve been told - isn’t it good to find their sources and prove how they’re lies? They probably won’t admit it on the spot, but you can change minds through communication. It’s at least good to try.
Nothing more toxic than justifying illegal wars and genocides. Again we are not talking about opinions
I’ve been banned while specifically saying I do not support Isreal’s genocide. All it takes is saying Palestines shouldn’t call for the genocide of Jews and I’d be called a hasboro, a Zionist and an Israeli appologist. People don’t listen, they just see something that’s not 100% supporting their extreme position and they lash out - and I understand the hate, but there certainly are reasonable opinions that don’t involve revenge genocide, I would think. Banning discussion is stupid. It’s like burning books in libraries that you don’t agree with. Or defunding scientists because you don’t like the answers that the science provides.
But I talked specifically about people justifying settler colonialism and genocide . Don’t make it about yourself
Wrong analogy. Banning people advocating for invading Ukraine or israel colonizing Palestine is similar to banning nazis, racists and supermasists
But people seem to think I’m justifying genocide when I’m clearly not, I’m just agreeing with everything they say. And they ban ban ban. That is stupid, like burning books.
I 100% disagree with Russia invading Ukraine. It is horrific and stupid. But I would still be interested in talking with someone who supports it to try and understand where the hell they’re coming from. If they just buy into Russian propaganda or worse are clearly spreading it on purpose then there’s no useful conversation to be had, but if they genuinely believe it’s the right thing to do based n something that I don’t know about, I’d love to hear them out, and then presumably try to help them see where they are wrong.
Stop talking about yourself. There is settler colonialism apologists that run free on lemmy
Once you present them facts and evidence and they still repeat lies. They should be banned. Nothing justify settler colonialism
With your logic why not letting people calling for murder of any racist and supermasist comment and try to convince them that it is wrong?
I’m talking about myself because I have been banned from multiple Lemmy subs despite clearly not being one of those settler colonial apologists, but being accused of it for no reason other than I didn’t just blindly agree with everything.
And yes if people lie and ignore facts you can reasonably argue to ban them (I probably wouldn’t, but I understand).