It was the very best surrender! No one capitulates like trump! He made France look like Israel on steroids! He bent the knee bigly! I’m pretty sure it was cowardice like no one in history has ever seen! In fact, many men, many big tough men, Marines and ICE agents, have.said to him, they said “Sir Sir! And we don’t call anyone Sir as much as you, Sir! Sir, please fold like a Walmart suit even more, Sir, so we can lose just like you!” There’s never been a more cowardly dictator in the world! YUGE beta submission, the most tremendous chickening out, believe me.
A Dutch analyst put it this way: Trump negotiated backwards. He spent billions of dollars to obtain a worse deal than there was before he took office.
It really is one of the most obscene strategic fuck ups of all time.
Like… I cannot think of a historically comparable instance of shooting yourself not in the foot, but in the balls.
Sure, people at various points have made grave miscalculations… but usually that is due to just a total lack of relevant knowledge.
Trump has had to willingly disregard and fire just… tons and tons of people who told him this would be an insane thing to do that makes no sense.
Genuienly, I cannot think of a historical comparison to this.
It is essentially the worst strategic fuckup, literally of all time…
… maybe someone can point out to me a comparable historical fuck up that I am either unaware of or forgetting?
It’s not the exact same situation, but Germany attacking the Soviet Union in 1941 when they already had the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in place is a pretty colossal blunder. We don’t know what might have happened if Hitler hadn’t done that, but it was the biggest oof I’ve heard of.
It’s an interesting “what if?” in history, but it assumes the Germans negotiated that pact in good faith to assume there would ever be a situation in which they did not break it. In reality, expansion to the east to secure Lebensraum was always part of the plan. If they hadn’t attacked in 1941 they would’ve done so later, but it was always going to happen lest Hitler lose face.
I would agree with you that Germany was always just using the pact as a means of buying time. Either way, it’s a fuck up of the highest order.
I’d think the War of the Triple Alliance would be my pick.
Losing wars someone started has happened many times. Other ends of empires were both invasion of Russia related. Can include Ukraine, to everyone here’s anger. GDP down 75% since 2014 US nazification. What were the big ending mistakes of British, Spanish, Dutch, Roman empires? I’m sure a common thread of belief in own supremacy extending their actual power was at play.
Yes, it’s a huge fuckup.
Yes, saying it is the “worst, literally of all time” is not true. At all.
Worst strategic fuckup would include, say, the US itself being decimated. There’s a bunch of examples of that kind of thing in history.
Like, just in modern(ish) history - Operation Barbarossa like someone else mentioned. Operation Somme. Little Bighorn. Operation Market Garden. The Vietnam War escalation. Etc etc.
Go back through “all time” and there’s way worse strategic decisions. I mean, did you really think “all time” was that limited…? Are you forgetting, like, the majority of what you know about human history…?
Still, this was a major, stupid, 1000% Trumpesque fuckup.
Do you think there really were “tons and tons of people”? I mean, i hope there were, but honestly lately im thinking it was the opposite.
The NYT today put out a whole article explaining how Netanyahu dogwalked Trump into all of this, with about half the major figures in his cabinet expressing some opposition to this, some less insane figures being absent when Trump was talked up, by Israel, because Israel knows Trump’s brain is leaking out of his ears, and those key people they kept making sure were not present were the ones who were at least somewhat competent at something.
Beyond that, I think we’ve now had something like a quarter of our top military brass either resign in protest or be purged by Hegseth.
Yes.
Yes there were tons of people who said ‘this is insane’ to at least some degree, and were either ignored or removed.
Trump’s cabinet and government in general has basically been doing a Stalin-esque purge of literally anyone who won’t pledge fealty to him, often quite literally with a written pledge.
Everybody that got DOGE’d… yeah this entire Trump term has literally been Trump purging or having purged everyone fairly directly under his command, who’s not a loyalist.
I hope your right. we need all the dissenters in office/positions of power we can get.
I mean, JD Vance cautioned against doing this, but ‘relcutantly’ agreed.
Fox News is currently doing their best to present him as a sane alternative, indeed JD (along with Kusher and … some other goober, Wittkoff?) is the one being sent to Islamabad this weekend as the lead negotiator.
JD is of course an evil piece of shit with no principles at all who is functionally a ventriloquist dummy of Peter Thiel… but he’s fairly shrewd, his brains are not leaking out of his ears… he’s considerably more rational than Trump.
JD is also fairly widely suspected to be one of the main people in the cabinet leaking things to the NYT and other journos.
In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he spent all that money on purpose to line the pockets of some defense contractors that he may be “friends” with
So glad I voted for Godzilla in the last election
I wonder if Donvict has any idea how widely the TACO thing even is. The dipshit even set up his deadline on a Tuesday.
8pm on a Tuesday perfect time for a margarita with the TACO.
Ya know, maybe its just my cynicism speaking here but, a couple strong margaritas and good tacos are a great way to end the world.
this feels like a cope. are we helping anything by framing things like this? and this soon?
Agreed… neither party “won”, both are worse off as a result, both will continue to be worse off for years, and the American and Iranian civilians are the ones who will pay the bill physically, socially, and financially because Trump couldn’t comprehend that some entity may exist who would not instantly roll over and show it’s belly in submission.
Now Trump has supercharged the terrorists, AND the Iranian people will hate America for decades which will make regime change even more difficult. They will have to suffer even longer under theocratic repression now, thanks to Trump and his Fox News war-bro wannabe Nazi department head. If anyone in this administration had a brain, this would have been the main point of discussion before any bombs were dropped.
Whatever else comes out of the 2020s, I like that the era of ‘superpowers’ is pretty clearly over. The former Soviet Union can’t bring one of its former soviets back into the fold. The USA can’t get a regional power to roll over.
I hope that means a lot more coalition building among the regional powers. Actual compromise and consensus among people with different perspectives. I hope that means less kowtowing to Washington, Moscow, maybe even Beijing, because letting one nation tell the rest of the world what to do just sucks. We can get a lot more done working together than following a bully.
As an American, if that means giving up the global privilege I’ve had, being the ‘default currency,’ the ‘default language,’ and the ‘default rule,’ then I’ll suffer through it. Maybe it will even help us focus on fixing our domestic problems as they grow to crisis proportions.
I 100% agree with this take, but I think we need to be realistic about the impact of the reduction in status and lifestyle for Americans. I think when there is a rapid decline, people are going to become angry and reactionary and looking for someone to blame.
I think we will be more vulnerable to right wing take over, especially if it coincides with a Democrat administration. The situation might limit the global impact with US powers reduced, but internally it could become a real hellhole.
What, the right turn around and blame the current left administration for something that the right had caused before? Why, that never happ… okay, that’s what always happens.
I think you just need to look to Russia to see the US’ future. At no point have they ever stopped to think “maybe we shouldn’t concentrate power in the hands of the incredibly corrupt”. Instead they’ve grabbed hold of the idea that the entire world is conspiring to keep them down, and they’re big mad about it.
That’s also going to include most Americans working the same shitty hours they’re working now, living in plywood apartments and standing in line for whatever slop Walmart will sell them.
And blaming Democrats.
I concur, they’re the nearest/closest parallel.
History books in the future:
Yeah there was a Cold War, they both lost and then disintegrated/degenerated, it just took the US a few more decades.
Astonishingly corrupt kleptocracies/oligarchies, degenerate federal democracies that decayed into basically jingoistic/nationalist/supremacist fascism, full of anti-intellectual conspiracy theorists / religious extremists, plauged by deaths of despair, crime is legal if you’re wealthy or well-connected enough, massive prison/slave labor system, police/surveillance state, irredentist attempts at re-assetting their former glory through military violence and psyops, etc.
For a guy who is seemingly all about strategy, at least according to him in his own head, I do find it extremely funny that he fell for essentially the most basic strategy in martial arts.
If you blow your load all in round one, and this doesn’t instantly capitulate your opponent, you then have to survive all the other rounds, while exhausted, depleted.
If your entire strategy revolves around having the capacity to execute attacks with overwhelming force… you can’t do that when you are exhausted and depleted.
The most insane thing is that like Joe Rogan from 10 years ago, a self-described dumbass who does know a bit more than the average person about combat sports… would have been able to tell you that.
You can only be a person like Trump if you’ve never been punched in the face, and not been able to do anything about it.
