There is an increasing apprehension among service members that they may be asked to carry out an illegal order, amid reports Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered troops to “kill everybody” in a boat strike in September.
The concerns, reflected in an uptick in calls to the Orders Project — which provides free legal advice to military personnel — come from the likes of staff officers involved in planning the strikes on supposed drug-carrying boats and those in charge of designating those on the vessels as a threat in order to carry out such attacks.
Even as a reported Justice Department classified memo from this summer preemptively argued that U.S. troops involved in the strikes would not be in legal jeopardy, service members appear far more concerned than usual that the U.S. military may be opening them up to legal harm, according to Frank Rosenblatt, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, which runs the Orders Project.
Fair, but these aren’t even war crimes, as we aren’t in combat operations against some group that these guys belonged to. It’s just a boat with some dudes on it, belonging to a gang (maybe) carrying we don’t really know what headed to we don’t really know where. But they seemed enough like drug runners that we we blew them up then came back around to murder the survivors. So this would be bad enough if it were a war crime, and we had known for sure who these guys were and what they were carrying. But it was wasn’t a war crime, it was just a crime crime, carried out with almost zero information against anonymous non-combatants who were disabled and likely drowning anyway. Our drone strikes in general are terrible crimes, most of them, but this one does have reasons it stands out.
When a military kills civilians, it is absolutely a war crime.
I’m only phrasing it that way because people who I assume know much better than me what this is all about made the following conclusion (emphasis mine):
personally, I don’t disagree that this feels like a war crime, it was ordered by the SecDef, after all, with a whole chain of command and everything. But according to these experts, who’s analysis I trust to be way better than mine, this doesn’t officially fall under the category war crime. Crime? Yes. Crime against humanity? You betcha. Massive international human rights violation? All day baby. But technically not a war crime, by the strict definition. But if you prefer the colloquial definition of “if a soldier is ordered to do it, it’s a war crime” I can’t say I really disagree with you.
Edit: yeah ok dang dudes I’m not like, in charge of what is what, I’m just quoting information I thought was well-sourced and well-reasoned from some extremely qualified experts. If you want to send your corrections in to this institute and argue with them if you think your knowledge is superior to theirs , then please do so with my blessing. He’s a Professor of International Law at the University of Reading, Affiliate at Harvard Law School’s Program on International Law and Armed Conflict, and Visiting Research Professor at the International Institute of Humanitarian Law, so best of luck. For myself I’m literally saying I can’t disagree that this sounds like a war crime so be chill.
Stop spreading misinformation. The ICC and ICJ don’t give a shit if the country considers itself at war. These are war crimes because it was a military that executed it.
If it were police doing extra judicial killing, then it would be called Crimes Against Humanity.
hey man, you’re welcome to take it up with the people who came to that conclusion:
Michael Schmitt is Professor of International Law at the University of Reading, Affiliate at Harvard Law School’s Program on International Law and Armed Conflict, and Visiting Research Professor at the International Institute of Humanitarian Law. He formerly served as the G. Norman Lieber Distinguished Scholar at West Point, Chair of the Stockton Center for International Law at the US Naval War College, where he is Professor Emeritus, Dean of the George C. Marshall Center European Center for Security Studies, and Professor of Law at the University of Exeter, Durham University, and the United States Air Force Academy. Professor Schmitt is a retired U.S. Air Force judge advocate, having specialized in international and operational law. He is the General Editor of the Lieber Studies series (OUP) and sits on many international law advisory and editorial boards.
Ryan Goodman is founding co-editor-in-chief of Just Security. He is the Anne and Joel Ehrenkranz Professor of Law and Co-Director of the Reiss Center on Law and Security at New York University School of Law. He served as Special Counsel to the General Counsel of the Department of Defense (2015-16). Ryan is also a Professor of Politics and Professor of Sociology at NYU. He was the inaugural Rita E. Hauser Professor of Human Rights and Humanitarian Law at Harvard Law School. He received a J.D. from Yale Law School, a Ph.D. from Yale University, and a B.A. from the University of Texas at Austin.
Dr. Tess Bridgeman is Co-Editor-in-Chief of Just Security. She served in the White House as Special Assistant to the President, Associate Counsel to the President, and Deputy Legal Adviser to the National Security Council (NSC) during the Obama administration. She also served at the State Department in the Office of the Legal Adviser as Special Assistant to the Legal Adviser and, prior to that role, as an Attorney Adviser in the Office of Political-Military Affairs. Bridgeman is a Senior Fellow and Visiting Scholar at NYU Law School’s Reiss Center on Law and Security, where she created the War Powers Resolution Reporting Project. She is an affiliate at Stanford University’s Center for International Security and Cooperation (CISAC), lectures at Berkeley Law, and is a former chair of the American Society of International Law (ASIL)’s Strategic Initiatives Committee. Bridgeman has a D.Phil. in International Relations from Oxford University, where she studied as a Rhodes Scholar; a JD from NYU Law School, magna cum laude and Order of the Coif, which she attended as a Root-Tilden-Kern and Institute for International Law and Justice Scholar; and a BA from Stanford University.
Go accuse them of spreading disinfo if you feel like it they wrote it jeez.
They’re talking about domestic law. I’m talking about international law
Again, it doesn’t fucking matter what the US says. What matters is what the ICC and ICJ says.
Please stop spreading misinformation. Then narrative that US laws matter might even be spreading disinformation
Are they though?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime