People, you’ve gotta stop waiting for a revolution.
Any “solution” that starts with “you first” and involves fighting against forces that vastly out gun you, with people you absolutely would not agree to fight with is a complete non starter.
You have to realize that even if such a revolution happened, after it happened, they’d just pick the same systems that lead to that result.
You want a hail mary but you will not get it.
The practical buckleys tagline solution you all hate but is the only one that works is supporting the fuck out of the democrats in not only the short term (to stop so many people from being harmed), but in the long term too, this way they can’t just use the right as an excuse to go to the right. All that time, youll need to replace the old guard with more progressive members through overwhelming support in primaries, and being active in state and local politics.
Thats the only way forward where you can win, and its a lot more feasible and less painful than any revolution fantasies. In any of those fantasies, its more likely your head rolls than any of the ghouls we all hate.
When Elon Musk and all the other now-mainstream-weirdos started calling for a civil war, it should have been a wakeup to progressives - this is not in your best interest.
Taking back the average middle-class voter will require changing hearts and minds. That’s what the Republicans did to them. We, on the other hand, have been hitting them over the head with their own racism and stupidity, ignoring the reasons they’re doing what they’re doing - and how we’re playing into Republican hands by doing this over and over.
Now is the time to build the progressive party as a big tent - if you hold one progressive tenant, you’re a democrat, goddamn it - and start inviting voters into it, with solutions to their problems and acceptance of their ass-backward views until we can soften and change them.
I don’t think this part is true. I agree with the part before this, but not this.
The republicans caused a surge in their hate. They appealed to the heartburn in their esophagus’s, not their hearts and minds.
I think the voter apathy is really what has them winning. The fact that people can recognize that the DNC seeks to do nothing, and somehow have been tricked into thinking this means their votes mean nothing, or that they can’t be changed.
We, on the other hand, have been hitting them over the head with their own racism and stupidity, ignoring the reasons they’re doing what they’re doing - and how we’re playing into Republican hands by doing this over and over.
I don’t think its this at all. In fact, when we stopped doing this is when their votes went up. People largely respond to democrats actually fighting for something instead of saying “at least we arent that other guy”.
The democrats currently, as a group, come across as “We’ll change nothing” and thats the problem. Its a problem that can be fixed though.
Now is the time to build the progressive party as a big tent - if you hold one progressive tenant, you’re a democrat, goddamn it - and start inviting voters into it, with solutions to their problems and acceptance of their ass-backward views until we can soften and change them.
This mentality I actually believe is part of the problem. This speaks as if we’re all a part of the DNC, and we’re not.
Our levers to control this are as I described. Slow change through primaries, state and local politics.
We would all love if tommorow the Democrats turned around and started talking like Mamdani about practical solutions, but they don’t want to do that due to their donors, and the fact a shit ton of the old guard are just rich conservatives.
All these “we need to do X” that start with the DNC magically changing their incentive structure are in similar fairy tale land to a revolution. They misunderstand where the actual roadblocks are, and treat the DNC as if it weren’t currently antagonistic to their goals.
Yes its complex to say that the DNC is antagonistic to your goals but you need to support the Democrats anyways with a full chest, but the world is complex, and this is the reality of a winner takes all/first past the post system. There are 2 major parties, eventually, always under these systems, and you pick the least bad one, and force it to change slowly.
We both agree the party has to be changed from within. We agree on basically everything. I do not hope everyone starts talking like Mamdani tomorrow. I’m in Arkansas, formerly blue and now red (like my home state of Iowa). Absolutely zero people here, within either the Dem party or the progressive coalitions working outside of it, would say “what works in NYC will work here.” People are not there yet. We have to meet them where they are so we can change their hearts and minds.
What will work here is the simple message “we know you’re at or beyond financial ruin, we have the only solution.”
What won’t work is "let’s divide ourselves as progressives vs. establishment, pro vs tepid trans support, split every hair and make ourselves look like the weak navel-gazers they paint us as. Stop dithering about who is “DNC” and who isn’t. That’s the problem right there. We are all DNC. We are all progressive. We are all one.
Unity. It’s what the Republicans started with the Southern strategy, which I know is real because I saw it flip two states, starting way back in the 80s when AM radio was quietly taken over. AM radio was in fact a brilliant way to reach the rural folks and start a populist campaign, which the bore fruit in the 90s and 00s as the party began evolving away from old ideals. They had one message - “those city folks want to destroy your good, wholesome, Christian way of life.” From there the party itself reinvented itself (multiple times over) not at the ballot box, but by powerful people within the party who knew how to crack whips and enact reform. We need to identify and empower these people within the Democratic party, and that might mean putting side differences to build the big tent coalition we need.
I do not hope everyone starts talking like Mamdani tomorrow.
Mamdani talked for NYC and its problems. My hypothetical Mamdani would just be quick witted, and talk about active solutions for the people, but on the federal scale. I by no means think people would magically agree to everything Mamdani is talking about. It was about a shift in messaging to being about pragmatic change for the people. not fighting progressives within the party etc.
What won’t work is "let’s divide ourselves as progressives vs. establishment, pro vs tepid trans support, split every hair and make ourselves look like the weak navel-gazers they paint us as. Stop dithering about **who is “DNC” and who isn’t. **
Im not sure I follow that last part. The DNC is a very real organization with very real leaders and goals. Its not something that is disputed, its a factual, existing organization.
We need to identify and empower these people within the Democratic party, and that might mean putting side differences to build the big tent coalition we need.
Part of the problem, is that you need a draw, and if you can’t use hate, you have to use appealing to the common person with change. The idea that its about a bigger tent, is something that needs change within the DNC/Old gaurd too.
They don’t seem to want to accept the progressive elements, and Im not talking about the people online who say nonsense about third parties or revolutions, I mean people like AOC, Bernie, Mamdani. They fight them tooth and nail, and thats part of the problem. Of course, as I mentioned, we can’t solve that though, as we’re not part of the DNC, hence the solution I recommend.
Its interesting that both comments that push the nonsense of voter apathy and non participation in the only political system you have needed to completely take a singular part of a multi stage solution out of context to attempt to ridicule it.
If I had just said supporting the democrats and left it at there you might have had a point, actually no, you still wouldn’t as the “light it all on fire mentality” is just anti human. Instead though, you have a very poorly constructed strawman argument, and the response to the other person with a similar style of comment is just as applicable here, but even more so since you are so blatant in your misrepresentation.
The practical buckleys tagline solution you all hate but is the only one that works is supporting the fuck out of the democrats
where is the evidence that this “works”?
were the democrats not in charge after the first trump term an utterly failed to do anything? and I don’t mean they tried but failed, they didn’t even triy
same as Obama, he could/should have prosecuted Bush for any of the many war crimes but instead immediately let them all of the hook with the “let bygones be bygones” crap
I absolutely agree a civil war would be awful but I think you are waaaaaay past fixing this by voting… much less voting for the same party that has shown to love the status quo so much
were the democrats not in charge after the first trump term an utterly failed to do anything?
Like passing a huge infastructure package, buying a shit ton more vaccines, attempting to and partially succeeding at college debt relief for a large number of people, imposing a minimum corporate tax rate and more?
They didn’t do nothing, they just didn’t provide you the world in one term. You were never getting that, and even if magically your perfect government was voted in tommorow, they wouldn’t be able to give you that without a super majority, and even then it would still probably take more than one term.
More than all of that though, your comment completely misses the rest of my comment to use one part of it out of context to pretend I said changing nothing about the democratic party would be the solution. Thats very bad faith of you.
Democracy works when you actually take part in it. The people have become so apathetic and think that voting is doing everything they need to do. It’s actually the least they need to do. Most of the decisions and the candidates have already been chosen by the time you vote on it. The real work happens between elections, not during them.
Change the party. Change the ideas. Get active. Change the people. It’s the only way you’ll have someone worth voting for.
If everyone took part in the society they wanted to create the world would be a different place. The people in power stay in power because people like you give up before you even try.
If you don’t want to help then get out of the way for those who do.
People, you’ve gotta stop waiting for a revolution.
Any “solution” that starts with “you first” and involves fighting against forces that vastly out gun you, with people you absolutely would not agree to fight with is a complete non starter.
You have to realize that even if such a revolution happened, after it happened, they’d just pick the same systems that lead to that result.
You want a hail mary but you will not get it.
The practical buckleys tagline solution you all hate but is the only one that works is supporting the fuck out of the democrats in not only the short term (to stop so many people from being harmed), but in the long term too, this way they can’t just use the right as an excuse to go to the right. All that time, youll need to replace the old guard with more progressive members through overwhelming support in primaries, and being active in state and local politics.
Thats the only way forward where you can win, and its a lot more feasible and less painful than any revolution fantasies. In any of those fantasies, its more likely your head rolls than any of the ghouls we all hate.
No one is coming to save us. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.
When Elon Musk and all the other now-mainstream-weirdos started calling for a civil war, it should have been a wakeup to progressives - this is not in your best interest.
Taking back the average middle-class voter will require changing hearts and minds. That’s what the Republicans did to them. We, on the other hand, have been hitting them over the head with their own racism and stupidity, ignoring the reasons they’re doing what they’re doing - and how we’re playing into Republican hands by doing this over and over.
Now is the time to build the progressive party as a big tent - if you hold one progressive tenant, you’re a democrat, goddamn it - and start inviting voters into it, with solutions to their problems and acceptance of their ass-backward views until we can soften and change them.
I believe this is the only path forward.
I don’t think this part is true. I agree with the part before this, but not this.
The republicans caused a surge in their hate. They appealed to the heartburn in their esophagus’s, not their hearts and minds.
I think the voter apathy is really what has them winning. The fact that people can recognize that the DNC seeks to do nothing, and somehow have been tricked into thinking this means their votes mean nothing, or that they can’t be changed.
I don’t think its this at all. In fact, when we stopped doing this is when their votes went up. People largely respond to democrats actually fighting for something instead of saying “at least we arent that other guy”.
The democrats currently, as a group, come across as “We’ll change nothing” and thats the problem. Its a problem that can be fixed though.
This mentality I actually believe is part of the problem. This speaks as if we’re all a part of the DNC, and we’re not.
Our levers to control this are as I described. Slow change through primaries, state and local politics.
We would all love if tommorow the Democrats turned around and started talking like Mamdani about practical solutions, but they don’t want to do that due to their donors, and the fact a shit ton of the old guard are just rich conservatives.
All these “we need to do X” that start with the DNC magically changing their incentive structure are in similar fairy tale land to a revolution. They misunderstand where the actual roadblocks are, and treat the DNC as if it weren’t currently antagonistic to their goals.
Yes its complex to say that the DNC is antagonistic to your goals but you need to support the Democrats anyways with a full chest, but the world is complex, and this is the reality of a winner takes all/first past the post system. There are 2 major parties, eventually, always under these systems, and you pick the least bad one, and force it to change slowly.
We both agree the party has to be changed from within. We agree on basically everything. I do not hope everyone starts talking like Mamdani tomorrow. I’m in Arkansas, formerly blue and now red (like my home state of Iowa). Absolutely zero people here, within either the Dem party or the progressive coalitions working outside of it, would say “what works in NYC will work here.” People are not there yet. We have to meet them where they are so we can change their hearts and minds.
What will work here is the simple message “we know you’re at or beyond financial ruin, we have the only solution.”
What won’t work is "let’s divide ourselves as progressives vs. establishment, pro vs tepid trans support, split every hair and make ourselves look like the weak navel-gazers they paint us as. Stop dithering about who is “DNC” and who isn’t. That’s the problem right there. We are all DNC. We are all progressive. We are all one.
Unity. It’s what the Republicans started with the Southern strategy, which I know is real because I saw it flip two states, starting way back in the 80s when AM radio was quietly taken over. AM radio was in fact a brilliant way to reach the rural folks and start a populist campaign, which the bore fruit in the 90s and 00s as the party began evolving away from old ideals. They had one message - “those city folks want to destroy your good, wholesome, Christian way of life.” From there the party itself reinvented itself (multiple times over) not at the ballot box, but by powerful people within the party who knew how to crack whips and enact reform. We need to identify and empower these people within the Democratic party, and that might mean putting side differences to build the big tent coalition we need.
Mamdani talked for NYC and its problems. My hypothetical Mamdani would just be quick witted, and talk about active solutions for the people, but on the federal scale. I by no means think people would magically agree to everything Mamdani is talking about. It was about a shift in messaging to being about pragmatic change for the people. not fighting progressives within the party etc.
Im not sure I follow that last part. The DNC is a very real organization with very real leaders and goals. Its not something that is disputed, its a factual, existing organization.
Part of the problem, is that you need a draw, and if you can’t use hate, you have to use appealing to the common person with change. The idea that its about a bigger tent, is something that needs change within the DNC/Old gaurd too.
They don’t seem to want to accept the progressive elements, and Im not talking about the people online who say nonsense about third parties or revolutions, I mean people like AOC, Bernie, Mamdani. They fight them tooth and nail, and thats part of the problem. Of course, as I mentioned, we can’t solve that though, as we’re not part of the DNC, hence the solution I recommend.
is this the Democrats or a new party you are proposing?
lmao. Started strong then ended in complete fail. Dems are half of the two-“party” problem.
So Biden took us “forward” and had us “winning”? How’s that working out for ya?
Its interesting that both comments that push the nonsense of voter apathy and non participation in the only political system you have needed to completely take a singular part of a multi stage solution out of context to attempt to ridicule it.
If I had just said supporting the democrats and left it at there you might have had a point, actually no, you still wouldn’t as the “light it all on fire mentality” is just anti human. Instead though, you have a very poorly constructed strawman argument, and the response to the other person with a similar style of comment is just as applicable here, but even more so since you are so blatant in your misrepresentation.
where is the evidence that this “works”?
were the democrats not in charge after the first trump term an utterly failed to do anything? and I don’t mean they tried but failed, they didn’t even triy
same as Obama, he could/should have prosecuted Bush for any of the many war crimes but instead immediately let them all of the hook with the “let bygones be bygones” crap
I absolutely agree a civil war would be awful but I think you are waaaaaay past fixing this by voting… much less voting for the same party that has shown to love the status quo so much
Like passing a huge infastructure package, buying a shit ton more vaccines, attempting to and partially succeeding at college debt relief for a large number of people, imposing a minimum corporate tax rate and more?
They didn’t do nothing, they just didn’t provide you the world in one term. You were never getting that, and even if magically your perfect government was voted in tommorow, they wouldn’t be able to give you that without a super majority, and even then it would still probably take more than one term.
More than all of that though, your comment completely misses the rest of my comment to use one part of it out of context to pretend I said changing nothing about the democratic party would be the solution. Thats very bad faith of you.
no, I’m referring about stopping fascism and protecting democracy and the rule of law
all else is secondary is everything is destroyed every other turn
Democracy works when you actually take part in it. The people have become so apathetic and think that voting is doing everything they need to do. It’s actually the least they need to do. Most of the decisions and the candidates have already been chosen by the time you vote on it. The real work happens between elections, not during them.
Change the party. Change the ideas. Get active. Change the people. It’s the only way you’ll have someone worth voting for.
I’m not saying democracy does not work, I’m saying the Democrats will not fix this problem
It’s like believing in fairies. Come on, kids! Do you believe?!?! Let’s save Tinkerbell!!! smh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
If everyone took part in the society they wanted to create the world would be a different place. The people in power stay in power because people like you give up before you even try.
If you don’t want to help then get out of the way for those who do.
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