Attribute responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions, and change them.
You’re just playing word salad here.
It’s still about attributing blame because you refuse to account for how people operate and how effective lobbying/propaganda groups are on regular people who aren’t as aware on any given topic as you are.
I’m not. I mention it in response to people’s attempts to claim it’s never their fault. It’s always someone else’s fault. That there’s nothing they can do, it’s always everyone else.
This is a made up strawman. No one is saying that here, and people aren’t typically saying that without a large amount of nuance and less absoluteness on this topic.
And society would be better off for that change anyways.
You say this like you’re making a point when instead you make it clear you udderly missed my point. The point was that its “technically” peoples choice, but it clearly isn’t with how heavy the lobbying is.
The hope was that this would moove your opinion and help you culture an appreciation for the extremely strong effects of propaganda and lobbying such that something people think is choice, is far less choice than they think.
Perhaps I’m milking this point now, but I really thought it persuede you to think more about how people who aren’t in your specific bubble think and are affected.
People who are in areas with public transit and refuse to use it because it’s a minor inconvenience are specifically who I’m talking about that with. And yes, people’s votes helped cause that change.
People’s votes after what though? People didn’t just randomly form these opinions.
People in Europe have completely different opinions in general, and you know what the major factor is? A lack of the massive inertial propaganda that the US has had. Did you check out my link? I encourage you to watch it.
It’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.
I’m sure there are. I know there are. Every year I strive to improve. To consume less. To eat less meat. To bike and rid myself of the car I drove for far too long. Improvement takes time. It’s not a one second thing, it takes decades of effort. But it makes a difference, one little step, one person at a time, makes a difference. However, I can be sure I’m actually trying.
It sure does, now how can you say all that, but miss my point entirely that there could be someone putting the exact same amount of effort into being a better person yet not have their issues align with yours on this at all?
Do you not see why policy is the major way to change their habits?
No rain drop thinks it caused the flood. Every, single, bit matters.
You aren’t arguing against me. You just aren’t reading my points at all.
A response needs to come from all sides
That is literally impossible for the very same reasons that you said “I’m sure there are. I know there are.” above. If you can’t, how the hell are you expecting other people to for the issues you find most important?
You can’t solve it by only focusing on companies.
Quite frankly, you absolutely could. If the propaganda influencing consumer choices was stopped, you’d have a good enough solution.
Manufacturers would be making smaller vehicles due to regulations, people couldn’t choose monstrosities, roads would get slimmer in new development, public transportation would be built better.
Its completely possible from a top down approach, but utterly impossible when trying to focus from a bottom up approach.
A lot of people’s apathy is driven by the false perception that they cannot make a difference with their own power.
Partially because there are so many folks like you who without realizing they are doing so, expect everyone to understand and care about every topic, even while you yourself obviously could not live up to such an unrealistic standard.
But also partially because of propaganda.
Why do you think BP loves telling people to take personal responsibility over climate issues? They know its a dead end.
That their vote doesn’t matter.
This part I absolutely agree with and constantly argue with people on lemmy about. So many people believe the only way out is some whimsical fantastical revolution that will never come, or a third party that would actually secure a victory for the enemies.
I expect them to care about the potential mass death of most humans and environments that has been blasting on the news and taught to most for decades … and I think that’s reasonable.
The point was that its “technically” peoples choice, but it clearly isn’t with how heavy the lobbying is.
If someone tells you to kill a guy and you do, does it make sense to exclusively blame the person who told you? No. They’ve been given the information and tools to find more information.
even while you yourself obviously could not live up to such an unrealistic standard.
The standard I want is “trying” to do better. I want people to actually try to reduce their impact. That’s it. It’s not a high standard.
And simply, if you think propaganda can influence everyone enough that it makes changing individuals impossible, why do you think that convincing them to vote differently is possible?
Manufacturers would be making smaller vehicles due to regulations, people couldn’t choose monstrosities, roads would get slimmer in new development, public transportation would be built better
It is a tad ironic that you talk about the influence of propaganda and are still stuck on the idea that people need cars.
. If you can’t, how the hell are you expecting other people to for the issues you find most important?
Climate change is the single most important issue, bar none. There’s no reasonable argument that can be made that the vast majority of humanity dying is the worst possible outcome, unless you go for an anti human perspective. I don’t expect people to be perfect. I expect them to try.
I did not watch your video as I’m already well aware of the history of car lobbying in America. How people allowed car companies to do away with public transit. How they allowed propaganda to perpetuate. I don’t believe people blindly believing clearly false propaganda are faultless
You’re just playing word salad here.
It’s still about attributing blame because you refuse to account for how people operate and how effective lobbying/propaganda groups are on regular people who aren’t as aware on any given topic as you are.
This is a made up strawman. No one is saying that here, and people aren’t typically saying that without a large amount of nuance and less absoluteness on this topic.
You say this like you’re making a point when instead you make it clear you udderly missed my point. The point was that its “technically” peoples choice, but it clearly isn’t with how heavy the lobbying is.
The hope was that this would moove your opinion and help you culture an appreciation for the extremely strong effects of propaganda and lobbying such that something people think is choice, is far less choice than they think.
Perhaps I’m milking this point now, but I really thought it persuede you to think more about how people who aren’t in your specific bubble think and are affected.
People’s votes after what though? People didn’t just randomly form these opinions.
People in Europe have completely different opinions in general, and you know what the major factor is? A lack of the massive inertial propaganda that the US has had. Did you check out my link? I encourage you to watch it.
It’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.
It sure does, now how can you say all that, but miss my point entirely that there could be someone putting the exact same amount of effort into being a better person yet not have their issues align with yours on this at all?
Do you not see why policy is the major way to change their habits?
You aren’t arguing against me. You just aren’t reading my points at all.
That is literally impossible for the very same reasons that you said “I’m sure there are. I know there are.” above. If you can’t, how the hell are you expecting other people to for the issues you find most important?
Quite frankly, you absolutely could. If the propaganda influencing consumer choices was stopped, you’d have a good enough solution.
Manufacturers would be making smaller vehicles due to regulations, people couldn’t choose monstrosities, roads would get slimmer in new development, public transportation would be built better.
Its completely possible from a top down approach, but utterly impossible when trying to focus from a bottom up approach.
Partially because there are so many folks like you who without realizing they are doing so, expect everyone to understand and care about every topic, even while you yourself obviously could not live up to such an unrealistic standard.
But also partially because of propaganda.
Why do you think BP loves telling people to take personal responsibility over climate issues? They know its a dead end.
This part I absolutely agree with and constantly argue with people on lemmy about. So many people believe the only way out is some whimsical fantastical revolution that will never come, or a third party that would actually secure a victory for the enemies.
I expect them to care about the potential mass death of most humans and environments that has been blasting on the news and taught to most for decades … and I think that’s reasonable.
If someone tells you to kill a guy and you do, does it make sense to exclusively blame the person who told you? No. They’ve been given the information and tools to find more information.
The standard I want is “trying” to do better. I want people to actually try to reduce their impact. That’s it. It’s not a high standard.
And simply, if you think propaganda can influence everyone enough that it makes changing individuals impossible, why do you think that convincing them to vote differently is possible?
It is a tad ironic that you talk about the influence of propaganda and are still stuck on the idea that people need cars.
Climate change is the single most important issue, bar none. There’s no reasonable argument that can be made that the vast majority of humanity dying is the worst possible outcome, unless you go for an anti human perspective. I don’t expect people to be perfect. I expect them to try.
I did not watch your video as I’m already well aware of the history of car lobbying in America. How people allowed car companies to do away with public transit. How they allowed propaganda to perpetuate. I don’t believe people blindly believing clearly false propaganda are faultless