• OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Feel free to report antisemitic comments, but antizionism isn’t antisemitism and acting like it is is antisemitic and will net you a ban starting once this comment is posted.

    Reporting borderline stuff will not get you banned but as someone who had family at auschwitz I’m tired of blatant antisemitism in defense of a settler colonialist apartheid regime.

    Hall of shame:

    @[email protected]

    • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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      antizionism isn’t antisemitism

      👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

      Clap LOUDER for those at the back! This is exactly what my Palestinian friend helped elaborate to me, the single biggest confusion sowed by western Zionist supporting rags into masses.

        • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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          Can be, but the nuance is not particularly that strong in real world. Rabbis have often displayed protest and anger on streets against Zionists.

          The ones who will usually exploit this are white rightwingers that hate Israel because with that they can hate Jews (being the Nazis they are), but currently they oppose only Israel and not Palestine. The nuance is tiny and its there, I know well.

          • gabe [he/him]@literature.cafe
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            1 year ago

            As a Jew, I say this kindly as I possibly can but it very much is quite strong in the real world. I’ve experienced antisemitism numerous times over with people using antizionism as an excuse. Antisemitism is really bad and has risen in the past few years online and offline, and people with bad intentions absolutely exploit Israeli war crimes to justify their antisemitism. And it creates a shitty feedback loop as hardcore Zionists point to instances of antisemitism that’s in done under the guise of antizionism as “hey look see they hate us thats why we need zionism!”

            • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              I’ve experienced antisemitism numerous times over with people using antizionism as an excuse.

              I am from India, and we are not as aware culturally, since we are far from Western countries. Mostly what I hear is from my Palestinian and Middle East friends, from non-West media sources like Telesur that I try to tune in on occasionally.

              What kinds of groups perpetrate this, and what could you add to my point regarding white rightwingers? Because West media purposely masking Israel with the cloak of cultural protection given to Jews is often what I discuss with my friend and is fucking disgusting and a disservice to all of the innocent Jews.

              • gabe [he/him]@literature.cafe
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                Any group. Antisemitism is unfortunately a unique form of racism that can be perpetuated by anyone. It’s complicated, and it’s complexity makes it all the more frustrating. It’s not just a Nazi thing, it’s an anyone thing. Anyone can perpetuate antisemitism, not just Nazis. That’s why it’s such a prevalent form of bigotry across the world. It’s also prevalent not just in Europe but there is antisemitism that has been culturally common in the Middle East as well as it is in the West, most of it which predates Israels founding as a whole too. That doesn’t justify Israels bullshit and their fascist government. Jew’s are hated by nearly everyone, everywhere.

                Because West media purposely masking Israel with the cloak of cultural protection given to Jews is often what I discuss with my friend and is fucking disgusting and a disservice to all of the innocent Jews.

                This specifically is something to be very careful when stating, as it veers dangerously close into territory of “jews control the media” which is an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I know what you are trying to say and our intentions seem to be in good faith here, but I ask you to analyze that as it is one of those things that people may take in very bad faith.

                https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/what-is-antisemitism/explained <- this is a good primer for it. It’s extremely complicated and there’s a reason why even in the US many well intentioned people don’t understand it either. It also doesn’t help that Israel uses legit examples of antisemitism to try and shield their war crimes from criticism.

                • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  The videos are far too basic material for someone like me, as I already know how antisemitism mutates like a disease. But your emphasis on the fact that it mutates, that is interesting, because I never thought of it in the longer timeline context. Good takeaway, thanks.

    • Jack.@lemmy.mlM
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      1 year ago

      Also any expression of support for the Israel led genocide of Palestinians or any sort bigotry will not be tolerated as per Rule 3.

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      There’s a difference between antizionism and antisemitism. Just as there’s a difference between Israel and Jews.

      Blame Israel, it’s anti Israel. Blame the Jews, it’s antisemitism.

      • gabe [he/him]@literature.cafe
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        Antisemitism explicitly refers to hatred of Jews, it’s a weird linguistics thing but its why when referring to antisemitism there isnt a dash (anti-semitism) as that would specifically refer to all semites as a whole (which palestinians are). It has roots to the specific phrase that was used in German to refer to hatred of Jews.

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    1 year ago

    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians … Choose peace rather than confrontation. Except in cases where we cannot get, where we cannot proceed, or we cannot move forward. Then if the only alternative is violence, we will use violence.”

    • Nelson Mandela

    I guess the time has come where Palestinians cannot move forward, and have to use violence.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        “World opinion”

        I think you mean ‘the opinion of the US and it’s allies.’ The world is much bigger than that, and opinions about Israel in the rest of the world are not great.

      • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Israel is funded and propped up by USA. How are you expected to turn USA and Anglos against USA, when they support Ukraine and Israel, both run by Zionist heads? (Zelensky is a Zionist.)

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            1 year ago

            Blacks allow West to portray itself as an inclusive culture, because of centuries of European exploitation being historically known to the world. Israel allows USA to fund and commit cyber terrorism globally, bully Iran for the “oil” and “influence” Middle East affairs. Complete Palestine colonisation is the goal of Israel and its military funder USA.

            Netanyahu could be assassinated tomorrow and replaced by another US puppet.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        “It is of no use for Israel to talk of peace, if they still hold onto the Arab territories of which they conquered.”

        Want to guess who said this one?

        The Palestinians have been pushed to breaking point by decades of apartheid. Obviously terrorist acts and killing civilans by any side is unjustifiable, but general Palestinian resistance against Israeli military targets and soldiers is self defence at this point. And let’s be very clear, you can’t steal Palestinian people’s homes, kick Palestinians out of their land, and joyfully watch Palestinians being bombed in an open air concentration camp , which Israeli settlers have been doing to Palestinians, and not expect a response in turn. You reap what you sow.

      • ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        Palestinians: got their land stolen by Israel

        Israel: Surprised stealing people’s land makes them want to shoot you

        SurprisedPikachu.png

        • gravitasium@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Yes, the land is stolen. Yes, resistance is legitimate. No, murder of civilians is not acceptable, no matter which side does it.

          Would you really hold the same view if native Americans massacred American civilians in the US today?

          • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            Personally my stance isn’t so much that I think its “acceptable” as I think its “an unfortunate reality”. Revolutions are not clean, ever. Individuals involved in it do bad things. Holding the oppressed to the standards of having a completly clean revolution (impossible) is just counterproductive. I support the revolutionaries even if not every action they take is morally right. I dont withdraw my support for something that is good on the whole because of individual acts that are not good.

            Its also worth noting that Israel chose to put civilians on the front lines of a settler project, and that this is kind of the obvious consequence of that. It can easily be argued, I think correctly, that they wanted this so they could look like the victims. Despite them being the oppressors.

          • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            if u.s. “civilians” were intentionally aiding in the genocide their government is carrying out? yes, killing them would be 100% justified, no matter who did it or when.

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            Yeah you’re right your right I’m just being a shitter sorry

            However, your last question is a little interesting. I would support it If native Americans were slaughtering Americans while they were still stealing their land. Israel is contemporary colonialism, and because they can get away with it and still be the victims, that is white supremacy

        • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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          Right?!? Literally the most reactionary take possible, acting like Isreal hasn’t done anything wrong to the Palestinians, or had gaza under crippling sanctions for decades…

          • InappropriateEmote [comrade/them, undecided]@hexbear.net
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            Also, too bad this place isn’t moderated, getting hard to choose between it and Reddit

            Then go back to reddit then and spare us your concern troll moaning in support of a genocidal ethnostate. Any violence done by Palestinians is self defense at this point.

            Also, this place is heavily moderated, it’s just not an echo chamber where you’re going to see nothing but opinions identical to your own (dogshit) worldview. Yes, your first comment was removed, as well it should have been. farquaad-point

      • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Remember when Israel just mowed down peaceful protestors after Trump moved the American embassy to Jerusalem? That embassy hasn’t been moved back under a Democratic president, either.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests

        This is but one example, under a climate of constant incursion into Gaza and stealing ever more land. That’s what Israeli settlements are, after all. They claim land from Palestinians, force them out of their homes, then move in Israeli families.

        Anything Hamas does is self-defense.

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        The international community has shown to be Pro-Israeli and thus anti-Palestinian. The Palestinian Plan for Partition was a plan to peacefully split up British Palestine into a separate Jewish and Arab state, as well as Jerusalem becoming a free city. The plan gave 62% of the land to the Jewish community despite the Arabic population having twice the population. Obviously the Arab population rejected this plan on the basis that it violated the right to natuonal self-determination, and thus this perpetual conflict was born.
        Especially with the US being so obviously Pro-Israel and having virtually all power on the decision-making of the West, why would you think the Arab population would ever get fair treatment under an international “peacekeeping” mission?

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      Go to hell you bloodthirsty pig. Slaughtering civilians in the streets and inside air raid sirens is not resistance, it’s inhuman.

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        When you limit yourself to specific incidents, it’s easy to judge right and wrong. Over the course of years, though, neither side can claim the moral high ground.

        Overall, this is one of the most pointless, wasteful, and inhumane conflicts in human history.

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          Personally, when dealing with two groups who claim the same land, I side with the one that’s been there the longest, not the one that shouldered it’s way in, demanded a room, and started shooting anyone who told them to leave.

          But the US kind of has a penchant for that.

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        Killing - no matter the victim is inhuman.

        Believing one side has the right to kill while the other must take it, is pretty gross.

        “Slaughtering civilians in the streets” is precisely what the IDF does on the regular, just so you know. It’s hard to imagine any group of people would live under military occupation for 70+ years after being forced to leave their homes for refugee camps without the desire to fight for their freedom.

        • Pat_Riot@lemmy.today
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          There is almost nothing in this world that is more human than killing other humans. History is full of it. Religious texts are full of it. It’s what humans are best at. Is it awful? Sure, but it’s an act as human as it gets.

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            Point made. Sadly it’s true. Especially today as we spend trillions on technology designed to kill.

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          No it’s not. You’re just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre.

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            Sorry, but I have been an advocate for Palestinian rights for years. I’m not just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre. As I type this, the confirmed death tolls have Israelis near 100 while Palestinian deaths are near double that. So if you want to start talking about massacres, just so far today Israel has caused more death, let alone the days, weeks, months, years and decades prior to today.

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        Agreed. Which is why the IDF also needs to be eliminated.

        Both sides are and have been commiting atroscious acts against civilians and neither side can be excused for their inhuman actions.

        • Hiccup@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          Stop conflating two separate issues. If you want to discuss how the Palestinians have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I’m all ears. Ukraine is separate topic that I’m more than willing to discuss but not in regards to the current terrorist attacks that have taken place today all throughout Israel

          • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            If you want to discuss how the Palestinians have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I’m all ears

            If you want to defend acts of Israeli apartheid towards Palestinians, I’m not going to listen. I’m South African, I oppose apartheid everywhere. As Nelson Mandela said, our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinian people.

            I will not defend the killing of civilians by any side. That is morally unjustifiable. I will be clear however, that violence begets violence, and Israel has been indiscriminately bombing civilians (a terrorist tactic), and stealing land and homes for decades. The way to end this is to stop the violence, and come to the negotiation table. A two state solution of some sort is a compromise that is desperately needed to ease tensions.

              • SexMachineStalin [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                You’ve been defending terrorists the whole time. Israel has never taken hostages like the Palestinians have. There’s no end goal in these attacks. Whatever problems the Palestinians have will not be fixed by what they’re doing.

                I can change the place names in your quote a bit and you sound exactly like the typical boilerplate response of a 1970s-80s South African pro-Apartheid liberal whining about how “uMkontho we Sizwe is too violent”. Just flatly admit that you support the Apartheid rule and the list of crimes perpetrated by the Israeli government.

                PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            . If you want to discuss how the Palestinians Banderites have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I’m all ears.

            Ftfy

      • Grimble [he/him,they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        What a moving, salient political take. Good thing “Just stop it and leave us alone😡🤬” is a belief that always survives against armed militant resistance

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        With the establishment of a relationship of oppression, violence has already begun. Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed. How could they be the initiators, if they themselves are the result of violence? How could they be the sponsors of something objective whose objective inauguration called forth their existence as oppressed? There would be no oppressed had there been no prior of violence to establish their subjugation.

        And it is clear that in the colonial countries the peasants alone are revolutionary, for they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The starving peasant, outside the class system is the first among the exploited to discover that only violence pays. For him there is no compromise, no possible coming to terms; colonization and decolonization a simply a question of relative strength.

        Get this into your head: if violence were only a thing of the future, if exploitation and oppression never existed on earth, perhaps displays of nonviolence might relieve the conflict. But if the entire regime, even your nonviolent thoughts, is governed by a thousand-year old oppression, your passiveness serves no other purpose but to put you on the side of the oppressors.

      • tryptaminev 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@feddit.de
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        The illegal settlements that are condemmed by the UN? Yeah sound about right to let murderous religious fundamentalist occupiers just occupy. You say the same to the Ukrainian people fighting the Russian invasion? They should just come to terms with Crimea being occupied?

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                When the Apartheid rule in South Africa ended, a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” was set up to prevent just this kind of retaliation from materializing. Even the Big Black Book of why Israel is peepeepoopoo according to South Africa that I have, even suggests also setting up a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for this same reason for when Palestine is liberated.

                However, you are more than likely engaging in a bad-faith argument, so…

                PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS

              • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                okay well thanks for your prognostication but israel is doing a genocide now

                what may or may not happen in the future according to the world’s least informed dipshit is irrelevant

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                I know it’s unlikely to happen, but you liberals should really start asking yourselves why these sort of hypothetical scenarios are required to justify your worldview.

                • huf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  they’re in constant state of terror to the tune of “they’ll do to us what we did to them!”

                  see also US slaveowners with their constant fantasizing about slave revolts, and their increased brutality to the enslaved to prevent it.

                  see also ancient spartans living in constant terror of a slave uprising and brutalizing their enslaved populations.

                  see also current US whites malding about the non-white population rising…

                  always the same shit with these fucks.

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    Been seeing claims on social media (so of course be skeptical) of at least one destroyed Merkava tank, POWs taken from that tank, a Zionist Entity military barracks overwhelmed with loss of all occupiers inside, and Palestinian fighters in control of at least one illegal settlement.

    May Palestine finally be free, from the river to the sea.

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      The unit the barracks allegedly belonged to. If true it means some of those responsible for the killing of Ibrahim al-Nabulsi have been brought to justice.

    • zephyreks@lemmy.mlOPM
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      There are videos of a Merkava destroyed by a drone-launched PG-7, photos of a second destroyed Merkava, and videos of MANPADS shooting down Israeli helicopters.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I saw the footage of a drone dropping an explosive on a Merkava. Video cut out before the smoke cleared so who knows if the tank was knocked out? I know at least one Merkava was burned and IDF prisoners taken from it, so entirely possible.

        The only video of Israeli helicopters I’ve seen are video game fakes a la Ukrainian cope from 2022.

    • dsemy@lemm.ee
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      Palestinian freedom currently involves the indiscriminate murder of civilians in villages occupied by Palestinian “fighters”.

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                Do you have any actual criteria for that stat? I don’t either but I know I’ve seen enough videos of families removed at gun point from their homes, enough for a few lifetimes.

                Hell, the attacks on Al Asqa is more than enough proof that they’re not simply building homes on land they own, but are acting as a violent invading force.

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            but in the vast majority of cases Israeli operations don’t intend to harm civilians.

            That is categorically untrue. What do you think the intention of bombing the Gaza strip is? The population density there is too high for precision airstrikes to be a possibility. What do you think Israeli settlers stealing the homes of Palestinians is? Israel has bombed the offices of journalists and killed them before. How is that not intending to harm civilians. Just because Israel uses the cloak of plausible deniability and fancy language to say that they don’t target civilians, it doesn’t make it true.

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            but in the vast majority of cases Israeli operations don’t intend to harm civilians.

            You mean like when apartment towers, hospitals, schools, water treatment plants, media offices, etc. in the Gaza Strip get leveled? Also, what are the Israeli secret service doing in the Oliver Tambo Airport all the way in Johannesburg for the past 15 years?

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            Do you support terrorists roaming the streets and killing families in their homes?

            no, but you do, fascist piece of shit.

      • rolandtb303@lemmy.ml
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        Yet you guys freak out when this argument is used on Ukraine. Both are bullshit arguments btw.

        • dsemy@lemm.ee
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          I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say.

          Did Ukrainian soldiers do this? I definitely don’t support that. I also have a lot of criticism for Ukraine, don’t assume I disagree with all your opinions just because you disagree with one of mine.

          And it’s not a bullshit argument. Israel is a small country, there are a lot of people dead and missing, my girlfriend’s family lives in Sderot, she hasn’t heard from anyone since the early morning. This isn’t some theoretical argument on an online message board for me - people I know may have been killed by terrorists.

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            1 year ago

            If you take a look at Israeli and Russian media, you’ll find out that they pretty use the same methods of propaganda (and sure some things are different, but the general census is the same).

            Dehumanizing the enemy, and lumping all of its people together, meanwhile trying to justify their actions with the victim approach. “oh please help i’m getting attacked, i have done nothing wrong, those guys over there are terrorists/nazis, we’re only liberating it from the horrible terrorists/nazis who keep bombing this place! we’re doing this for peace!”

            Also, why do you think the “terrorists” are doing this? Surely it wouldn’t be because of the illegal occupation of Palestine that Israel has been doing since 1948, with the Nakba (where various militant groups such as Irgun and Lehi did a massacre on Palestinian people, the looting of Palestinian homes, and evasion tactics such as planting trees to hide the fact that this was once Palestinian land being a huge part of it). IDF also play a major role in the occupation, as they very much want their presence known.

            IDF raid houses for the purpose of taking picture of all the family members in the house to use as data for BlueWolf (which is basically a profile of Palestinians so that Israel’s surveillance cameras can easily recognize their faces). They can also do a “house search” where they knock everything over and then come up empty-handed because they don’t know what they’re searching for. They can also use the house that they just raided as a sort of military base.

            Their most recent crime is the killing of a journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh. They then lied through their teeth while Israeli bots posted misinformation say that “the terrorists fired on her”, which was quickly debunked. They call that a “PR blitz”. Also, for them, bombing hospitals (such as the al-Shifa hospital), schools, media towers (Al-Jalaa building being one example), apartment buildings (such as Hamadi tower), and if that isn’t enough, the al-Shati refugee camp is known as “mowing the lawn”.

            So of course the Palestinians have every right to fight back, just like the Ukrainians do. I don’t agree with every method (just as i don’t agree with every method the Ukrainians use),. That being said, they are being occupied by a country who’s raiding and demolishing homes, doing random assassinations, and to top it all off, throwing tear gas into mosques and hospitals because that’s what the most moral army in the world does. No surprise that they fight back. They aren’t just going to surrender their land to the occupiers.

          • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I’m sorry for you and for your girlfriend’s family. I hope and pray they aren’t hurt … was going to write more but my heart breaks for them and for others as I write this. :'( I’m sorry that doesn’t mean much coming from a randomer across the internet.


            I try to remember the situation here is more complex than the parts I know about and read about, but having heard of what the insurgents are doing to civilians, and the glee at killing and degradation and massacre, I’m disgusted and sickened. And disgusted at people gleefully supporting such murder.

  • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    100% completely uncritical support to the liberatory resistance fighters of Palestine in their pursuit of decolonisation of their lands and right to self defence against Israel’s aggression, occupation and destructive regime.

    • Apollo@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Uncritical support of murder of children, of rape, of massacring defenseless civillians, and you think you are somehow better than the imperialists? Disgusting.

      • Rawdogg@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Israel started the brutality, Palestine has to do whatever it takes. The Israeli government is to blame for Israeli deaths

    • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Al Jazeera is run by a bunch Brits that have full editorial control unless it conflicts with Qatar’s foreign interests. It’s a giant dogsh*t media outlet pretending to be progressive. It’s like The Guardian of the middle east, not worth wiping your butt with.

  • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    I’m looking up combat footage in Telegram, and it ain’t looking pretty for the Zionists. You can tell the Palestinians caught them completely off guard with all the dead IDF solders lying in the pool of their blood without combat gear or even pants. Paper tigers always act tough until the colonized fight back, then they’re cowering in garbage bins or taking the first flight back to the US and Europe.

    The million dollar question is whether the US will write off Ukraine as a loss in order to bolster its most prized proxy state or whether the US will continue to stretch itself thin by fighting multiple fronts.

  • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Please hit Israel colonisers out of the park, literally. Fuck Israel to death.

    Sincerely, someone who has a long term Palestinian friend

    Edit: asked him, he’s okay and far